Decipher RPGs? "rumors"

[cczernia]

This was recently posted on rpg.net which originally came from the Decipher boards. I was wondering if CaptMDKirk or anyone could enlighten us on the subject further.

"Decipher announces today that effective January 23rd it is transferring responsibility for the RPG product lines from its Los Angeles office to Decipher headquarters in Norfolk, Va. We want to thank all of the Los Angeles RPG Studio staff, contract writers, and contract artists for the excellent product they have helped us create over the past two years. We are very proud of the award-winning products they helped us produce."

[BlanchPrez]

Huh... my girlfriend is actually a good friend with the line developer for Star Trek (Jess, I don't know his last name), who lives in LA. I'll have to ask her if she's heard anything from Jess about this.

Chris

[Lowly Uhlan]

[quote="BlanchPrez"]Huh... my girlfriend is actually a good friend with the line developer for Star Trek (Jess, I don't know his last name), who lives in LA. I'll have to ask her if she's heard anything from Jess about this.



Chris[/quote]

That's Jess Heinig,he used to live here I guess and gamed here as well,he stopped by Game Towne a couple of weeks ago.



If they do move to LA maybe they can pull their heads out of their asses and actually start releasing some of the products that the players have been waiting for. Last book for Trek came out in August, nothing since.

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]That's Jess Heinig,he used to live here I guess and gamed here as well,he stopped by Game Towne a couple of weeks ago.



If they do move to LA maybe they can pull their heads out of their asses and actually start releasing some of the products that the players have been waiting for. Last book for Trek came out in August, nothing since.[/quote]

Yup, that's the guy.



Apparently, they put a freeze on all the RPG's. Jess finished the stuff he was working on, and hasn't had anything new. This is the last news my girlfriend had, she's going to call him at some point this weekend to see how things are.



Chris

[BreakfastOfChampions]

Hmm doesn't bode well. I'll cross my fingers, though

[Lowly Uhlan]

Yeah,this isn't good news.Got my facts messed up,their moving FROM LA. How can they freeze products they aren't releasing? This bullshit has been going on since they formed the Roleplaying Studio. I think CODA Trek is one of the best RPGs ever published but they've had a really hard time putting out product,giving a much greater priority to the CCGs. Can't figure out why,Trek and LoTR are hot gaming properties and the books sell well.

[cczernia]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]
That's Jess Heinig,he used to live here I guess and gamed here as well,he stopped by Game Towne a couple of weeks ago.[/quote]

Really??? Wow, he used to be the head developer for Mage: tA. He managed to improve the system but drastically screwed the metaplot. I was wondering what he did after Mage.

[Lowly Uhlan]

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread.ph ... eadid=9460[url]

Jess Hienig lost his job with Decipher along with the rest of the RPG staffers. The RPG marketing guy in Norfolk also got the axe. The Trek and LoTR lines could be toast. :x There are supposedly a bunch of books that have been written for both lines and Decipher may publish all of them before officially killing them both. They've supposedly shopped LoTR to some other companies.

This really sucks. Sales for the Trek RPG have been decent,there's lots of fan intrest,CODA is an awesome system, and its a high quality product. Decipher seems like they really aren't interested in producing RPGs.There's a whole lot thats just speculation at this point.

[Lowly Uhlan]

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread.ph ... eadid=9582

More disenheartening news

[BlanchPrez]

Geezh, this all sounds familiar. Aparently, ST:RPG's are cursed. :roll:

Man, this sucks. I was afrade of this when Decipher took over the licence, to be honest. They're not an RPG company they're a CCG company, and I was surprised they opened an RPG devision in the first place. But, they got two big licences and a good system, so I had hopes for them. What a bummer.

Chris

[Lowly Uhlan]

Yep, Star Trek is a cursed property.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

I think its cursed in general.

Have we every seen a maiden flight of anything go off without a hitch?

And they're running out of alphabet.

Its a hard luck universe out there.

[cczernia]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]
This really sucks. Sales for the Trek RPG have been decent,there's lots of fan intrest,CODA is an awesome system, and its a high quality product. Decipher seems like they really aren't interested in producing RPGs.There's a whole lot thats just speculation at this point.[/quote]

Well, it does suck. However, Decipher put out the perfect set of books to play Star Trek. They are good for any major timline, and have all the crucial info. It is a lot like the limited series being put out by DP9. If they get the "Worlds" book out than the set would be complete. Everything else would just be filler.

[Lowly Uhlan]

I agree completely though the series-specific sourcebooks would be nice.

[Count Zero]

[quote="cczernia"][quote:dbdcd9de93="Lowly Uhlan"]

This really sucks. Sales for the Trek RPG have been decent,there's lots of fan intrest,CODA is an awesome system, and its a high quality product. Decipher seems like they really aren't interested in producing RPGs.There's a whole lot thats just speculation at this point.[/quote]

Well, it does suck. However, Decipher put out the perfect set of books to play Star Trek. They are good for any major timline, and have all the crucial info. It is a lot like the limited series being put out by DP9. If they get the "Worlds" book out than the set would be complete. Everything else would just be filler.[/quote:dbdcd9de93]



When you really think about it... do you really need anything else? Worlds would be nice, but there is so much Star Trek stuff out there, there might as well be RPG books being published. Add on the fact that we have the 5 Star Trek series to gleen info off of... do we really need some guy in an office putting it into stats for us. We can always do it ourselves.



The hardest if the line is ended is getting new people. They won't be able get the RPG main books. I don't know if we really need to work about this. Sure it sucks.. but you have all the important stuff.



Jonathan

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="cczernia"]Well, it does suck. However, Decipher put out the perfect set of books to play Star Trek. They are good for any major timline, and have all the crucial info. It is a lot like the limited series being put out by DP9. If they get the "Worlds" book out than the set would be complete. Everything else would just be filler.[/quote]

Maybe, but in my opinion it's always better to have a game that is supported rather than a game collecting dust in some designer's closet. Unsupported games have such a tough time getting new players.



Chris

[cczernia]

[quote="BlanchPrez"]Maybe, but in my opinion it's always better to have a game that is supported rather than a game collecting dust in some designer's closet. Unsupported games have such a tough time getting new players.[/quote]

Well, a game sitting in developer's closet isn't going to do anything. It needs to be distributed in some form. If a game goes out of print it doesn't necessarily become unsupported. It just lacks support from the original company. Support in the form of releasing new books becomes a double edged sword because if a line has too many books than newbies become overwhelmed. It Decipher kept the books in print than Coda Star Trek will remain strong. If they abandon it completely than it will become a niche game especially if another company picks up the Trek license.

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="cczernia"]Well, a game sitting in developer's closet isn't going to do anything. It needs to be distributed in some form. If a game goes out of print it doesn't necessarily become unsupported. It just lacks support from the original company. Support in the form of releasing new books becomes a double edged sword because if a line has too many books than newbies become overwhelmed. It Decipher kept the books in print than Coda Star Trek will remain strong. If they abandon it completely than it will become a niche game especially if another company picks up the Trek license.[/quote]

Alright, I'll conceed that point. So then, my first wish is that they don't simply stop making it, and my second wish then is if they do stop producing new books, that they at least continue to publish the existing books.



Chris

[cczernia]

[quote="BlanchPrez"]Alright, I'll conceed that point. So then, my first wish is that they don't simply stop making it, and my second wish then is if they do stop producing new books, that they at least continue to publish the existing books.[/quote]

This would be ideal. I would love to see this happen but Decipher is a CCG company meaning they look for profit by pushing out lots a new cards. RPGs defianitly don't fit this model and if they see marketing RPGs the same way as CCGs than this could be the end of the RPGs. I hope Decipher will find a way to keep the games in print.

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="cczernia"]This would be ideal. I would love to see this happen but Decipher is a CCG company meaning they look for profit by pushing out lots a new cards. RPGs defianitly don't fit this model and if they see marketing RPGs the same way as CCGs than this could be the end of the RPGs. I hope Decipher will find a way to keep the games in print.[/quote]

Yeah, this is the reason I didn't want Decipher to get the game in the first place. They're not an RPG company, never have been, and didn't seem to have any desire to be one.



On the other hand, I can't say I was too excited about Wizards doing a D20 Star Trek either. Levels in a Trek game just don't work for me. I was really happy with the compromise the guys came up with in the Coda game, probably the best Trek game system I've seen.



Chris

[cczernia]

[quote="BlanchPrez"]
On the other hand, I can't say I was too excited about Wizards doing a D20 Star Trek either. Levels in a Trek game just don't work for me. I was really happy with the compromise the guys came up with in the Coda game, probably the best Trek game system I've seen. [/quote]

The story of Trek RPGs is a wierd and whacky one that I can't keep straight in my head. Last Unicorn Games created the ST:TNG game and it won an origins award for best new game of the year! Than LUG is bought out by Wizards and in six months dissolves them. Decipher picks up the remnants of that team and they design a new Trek RPG. Decipher decides to use the new CODA system for the LotR RPG which also win an Origins award for best new game of the year. However, everyone agrees that the CODA rules fit the Trek game better. Now it is getting dissolved for the third time???



Star Trek RPG is dead!!!!

Long live the Star Trek RPG!!!



Your right though. This has been the best Trek RPG and if anyone wants to play Trek should get into the Decipher version. LotR RPG seemed good too but that is only because I think MERP was a disaster :) I just was never interested in LotR as a setting to game in.

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="cczernia"]The story of Trek RPGs is a wierd and whacky one that I can't keep straight in my head. Last Unicorn Games created the ST:TNG game and it won an origins award for best new game of the year! Than LUG is bought out by Wizards and in six months dissolves them. Decipher picks up the remnants of that team and they design a new Trek RPG. Decipher decides to use the new CODA system for the LotR RPG which also win an Origins award for best new game of the year. However, everyone agrees that the CODA rules fit the Trek game better. Now it is getting dissolved for the third time???[/quote]

It's actually much more complicated than that. FASA created a Trek RPG many moons ago, but folded, and the game went away, and we were left in a void of Trek RPG stuff. Then, LUG came along, and brought with it light and the Trek:TNG RPG! And things were glorious! Then, they wen't bankrupt. But, they were bought up by Wizards, who wanted no only the Trek licence, but the Dune licence LUG managed to get, but they wanted to make both games D20. Meanwhile, Viacom, the owners of the Trek licence, said they were willing to discuss thing with Wizards, but when behind Wizard's back and sold the whole Trek Game licence, RPG's and all, to Decipher, with narry a word to Wizards in the mean time. So, with no licences to keep the LUG/Wizards South office open, they closed it down. So, Decipher, in a fit of good judgement, decides to hire the now jobless LUG staff to head up their RPG department, who then go on the create the wonderful CODA system! But, once again, they are being closed. :(



Maybe the RPG just needs to move out of LA.


[quote]Star Trek RPG is dead!!!!

Long live the Star Trek RPG!!![/quote]

Huzzah!



Chris

[Lowly Uhlan]

You guys are forgetting the Prime Directive RPG from Task Force games and later GURPS. Based on the Star Fleet Battles universe (a variant,completely non-Canon deal). Strangely enough this one is now in print using GURPS,go figure. I don't know anyone that's played it.

I am pretty pissed that Decipher might be killing CODA Trek. They had problems from the get go, the ship minis they were supposed to produce evaporated when their intended buy-out of Ral Partha fell through. Then huge delays on published books.They've botched the whole deal so far. They have a solid core of players that will buy anything they put out on an established license.WTF? What's going to happen with the game is still up in the air. I want to be optimistic but going by their track record the line could be dead.

And I for one will probably never play the game again if they've killed it or support anything Decipher releases. The support of the publisher (in the form of new books) is essential ,I don't like playing dead games. Hopefully they'll publish what they have written, that will keep me going for awhile. This is my all-time favorite RPG,I'll be more pissed than I am now.

FUCK DECIPHER

[smartmonkey]

[quote] FUCK DECIPHER [/quote]

Word.



Companies that do this sort of stuff bug me... Hogshead publishing (the guys that put out Nobilis) at least decided to pull out of RPG publishing months before they did, let the fans know, put out all the books they had slated (completing the lines they had out, which were only like, two), and handed the liscences off to a company that gave the games creator direction over the line.



THAT is how you do it.

[Lowly Uhlan]

Yep, that's the way to do it. I don't really know if decipher cares enough about it's customers to take a similar action.

[smartmonkey]

Meh, one would hope they do. I mean seriously, theres probably a few people out there that play CODA and a few of Deciphers other games. Now, if your favorite RPG gets dropped like a hot potato, are you going to have much trust, or much loyalty, for that company?

Bleh. [/rant]

[BreakfastOfChampions]

Sounds like bad management and bad luck to me.

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]You guys are forgetting the [i]Prime Directive[/i] RPG from Task Force games and later GURPS.[/quote]

I didn't actually forget it, I just didn't mention it because I don't consider SFB to be Trek. But, that's just me. ]The support of the publisher (in the form of new books) is essential ,I don't like playing dead games. [/quote]



I'm right there with you on this comment.



Chris

[BreakfastOfChampions]

Different topic, but I don't mind playing dead games. They're only dead when someone stops playing them.

[cczernia]

[quote="smartmonkey"]


Companies that do this sort of stuff bug me... Hogshead publishing (the guys that put out Nobilis) at least decided to pull out of RPG publishing months before they did, let the fans know, put out all the books they had slated (completing the lines they had out, which were only like, two), and handed the liscences off to a company that gave the games creator direction over the line.[/quote]

I'm always thrilled when a great game is picked up by another company. GoO picked up Nobilis and Atlas picked up both Feng Shui and Ars Magica. Unfortunatly, ST RPG is a licensed game which makes this much more complicated. If Wizards or Mongoose were to buy the rights it would just become d20 and I don't think we need another incarnation of a Star Trek RPG.



Even WW handled this a little better with their Arthouse line which allowed poor selling games to finish their lines (Mage: Sorcerers Crusade, Trinity, Aberrant, Adventure). In do beleive that in the case of Arthouse very little (if any) was paid for freelance work and only 2 or 3 books would be released a year. The lines were almost completly fan supported.

[Lowly Uhlan]

Trek D20-God I hope not. And would another company really pick it up considering its checkered past? The biggest curse in gaming? A good OGL system would work, but I'd rather just keep using CODA. And I will if they don't kill the line.

[BlanchPrez]

Yeah, I understand, and really don't want to see Trek D20 myself, but, in semi-defense of that, the guys that wrote CODA also were working on Trek D20, and all of them said, even after CODA came out, that they liked what they were doing, and the fans would not have been upset.

Of course, several also said they were much happier with CODA, but that's a different story. ;)

Chris

[Count Zero]

[quote="BlanchPrez"][quote:9242d7b245="Lowly Uhlan"]You guys are forgetting the [i]Prime Directive[/i] RPG from Task Force games and later GURPS.[/quote]

I didn't actually forget it, I just didn't mention it because I don't consider SFB to be Trek. But, that's just me. ]



That makes you and a number of us. SFB is about as much Star Trek as Babylon 5 is.



Jonathan

[BreakfastOfChampions]

Out of curiousity, SFB? Oh Star Fleet Battles. Got it.

[cczernia]

[quote="BlanchPrez"]Yeah, I understand, and really don't want to see Trek D20 myself, but, in semi-defense of that, the guys that wrote CODA also were working on Trek D20, and all of them said, even after CODA came out, that they liked what they were doing, and the fans would not have been upset.

Of course, several also said they were much happier with CODA, but that's a different story. ]

Well, CODA is the closest thing to d20 without being OGL. I found it strange that the people at Decipher didn't try an OGL version. It you go d20 instead of 2d6, used the standard 6 stats), used BAB instead of skills and narrowed the secondary stats (will, savvy ex) to Saving Throws you would have an OGL game.

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="cczernia"]Well, CODA is the closest thing to d20 without being OGL. I found it strange that the people at Decipher didn't try an OGL version. It you go d20 instead of 2d6, used the standard 6 stats), used BAB instead of skills and narrowed the secondary stats (will, savvy ex) to Saving Throws you would have an OGL game.[/quote]

I think part of that has to do with Viacom. They might not have wanted an OGL game. They're pretty picky about their property, and most likely wanted a unique game engine for Star Trek.



Chris

[smartmonkey]

That doesn't really suprise me. D20, as it's been called before, is sort of like the McDonalds cheeseburger of RPG's. In that it's easily acsessible and does most everything decently.

However, only one of its liscences has done particularly well, Star Wars. The other, the Wheel of Time, more or less flopped.

I personally prefer a new system for these sorts of games, especially when theres stuff going on that D20 mechanics have a hard time representing. For example, magic in WoT would be pretty tough to convert into d20 mechanics, and it shows in WoTC's product.

Anyways, I'm sorry to see CODA go... I'm gonna have to snatch up the core books for it before it sinks completely...

[cczernia]

[quote="smartmonkey"]However, only one of its liscences has done particularly well, Star Wars. The other, the Wheel of Time, more or less flopped.



I personally prefer a new system for these sorts of games, especially when theres stuff going on that D20 mechanics have a hard time representing. For example, magic in WoT would be pretty tough to convert into d20 mechanics, and it shows in WoTC's product.[/quote]

I don't think "Wheel of Time" flopped because it went d20. Most RPGs based off novels usually don't do that well. At most they are limited to supplements for universal games such as GURPS (Uplift, Discworld, New Sun, Lensman) or the new Tri-stat supplements. The "Wheel of Time" RPG would have done poorly no matter what system it was under. Star Wars is a house hold name and you can practically put the name on anything and expect it to sell well.



There is enough gamers that only play d20 to seriously consider going d20 with any game. I think the best method is go duel statted in a similar way as Godlike, DP9, and Fading Suns. Star Trek could have easily done this especially with the actual CODA rules taking up 15 pgs in the back of the Players Guide. Unless, of course, Blanch is right and it had more to do with the owners of the license than it did the game company.

[Lowly Uhlan]

Some (encouraging?) news

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread.ph ... eadid=9643

They've said the line isn't cancelled and are devising a plan to bring out new titles. Here's a good plan:publish the fucking books.

[cczernia]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]They've said the line isn't cancelled and are devising a plan to bring out new titles.[/quote]

Good news indeed! Now you don't have to stop playing trek :)

[Lowly Uhlan]

[quote="cczernia"][quote:3041c093c3="Lowly Uhlan"]They've said the line isn't cancelled and are devising a plan to bring out new titles.[/quote]

Good news indeed! Now you don't have to stop playing trek :)[/quote:3041c093c3]



Yeah we can keep playing "Archon" if CMDK ever resurfaces.



I'm glad there is a glimmer of hope that the Trek RPG will continue. I hope Decipher doesn't wait 6 months to make the next announcement. Having adventures online is fine and well but I want more supplements. And assuming they print the books that have been written, who will write any beyond that? They let their writers go. And they were good RPG writers.

[Lowly Uhlan]

Here's the latest from Decipher

http://decipher.com/content/2004/03/030 ... tures.html

A couple of adventures. And a "new direction" for Trek and LoTR later this month. I guess the adventures are supposed to be the lube for them bending me over.

[cczernia]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]Here's the latest from Decipher



[url]http://decipher.com/content/2004/03/030104rpgadventures.html[/url]



A couple of adventures. And a "new direction" for Trek and LoTR later this month. I guess the adventures are supposed to be the lube for them bending me over.[/quote]

RUMOR MILL time!!!! What could the "new direction" be? A new system perhaps... possibly d20. I remember hearing that Decipher had been working on a d20 Trek and the designers were pretty happy with the results so far. Of course this would cause Uhlan to burn all his old books and than build an army to attack Decipher. Which would be amusing at first (like d20 Trek) but soon get old.

[BlanchPrez]

[quote="cczernia"]RUMOR MILL time!!!! What could the "new direction" be? A new system perhaps... possibly d20. I remember hearing that Decipher had been working on a d20 Trek and the designers were pretty happy with the results so far. Of course this would cause Uhlan to burn all his old books and than build an army to attack Decipher. Which would be amusing at first (like d20 Trek) but soon get old.[/quote]

I serously doubt it. If Decipher were going to do D20 Trek, they would have done it already. Plus, it wasn't Decipher that was working on D20 Trek, it was WotC, when they bought LUG (got all those acronyms?).



New direction means to me that they got a whole new creative staff in, and are basicly doing CODA, 2nd edition (or whatever you want to call it).



Chris

[cczernia]

[quote="BlanchPrez"]I serously doubt it. If Decipher were going to do D20 Trek, they would have done it already. Plus, it wasn't Decipher that was working on D20 Trek, it was WotC, when they bought LUG (got all those acronyms?).



New direction means to me that they got a whole new creative staff in, and are basicly doing CODA, 2nd edition (or whatever you want to call it).[/quote]

This is good. A new Players Guide would be nice (or a combination of the PG & GMG). Streamline some of the rules a little more (not that they need much streamlining) and fix up the layout. Perhaps include more of Enterprize setting in the book.



Any other guesses.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

Alien chickz

[cczernia]

[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]Alien chickz[/quote]

I said "new direction"

[Lowly Uhlan]

I think they might announce that they're releasing the remaining books they have written (Through a Glass Darkly, Blood and Honor, Worlds, Peacekeepers and Diplomats). Maybe as softcover to reduce costs. Beyond that I won't speculate. And I really hope I'm not being too optimistic. If the game goes to PDF only I'll be pissed. I like books.

And I've heard that at least one member of the RPG team had some kind of clause to be hired back.

And I think D20 Trek won't ever happen.

On a related topic it's kind of strange that the company rep for decipher (who was running our local Trek game) completely disappeared the same day they made the announcement. No word on the game he was running, but scheduelled Decipher CCG events skyrocketed that same day. Pretty weird. Shows a real lack of professionalisim from Decipher, and a real lack of character from the rep.

[Count Zero]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]I think they might announce that they're releasing the remaining books they have written (Through a Glass Darkly, Blood and Honor, Worlds, Peacekeepers and Diplomats). Maybe as softcover to reduce costs. Beyond that I won't speculate. And I really hope I'm not being too optimistic. If the game goes to PDF only I'll be pissed. I like books.
[/quote]

I wish more of the books would have been softback. I though creatures and the Starfleet Operations manual really didn't warrent hardback. It makes the line way to expensive.



Jonathan

[Lowly Uhlan]

Exactly why they might go to softback. It's hard to make money on licensed properties, switching from hardback could increase profit margins. The whole profit thing could be what closed the RPG studios.