Heroes... that aberrant-esque show

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:36 am

I wouldn't say it's clumsy and forced but it is very much fluff and fun. I think too much detail into this series is obviously against the spirit of the show. Really, nearly all the characters are archtype templates and they read dialogue like a statement of purpose to exist. To me this show rides on the premise strength and if you can't get on the ride...then it'll be like looking at a 40 foot painting 2 inches away.

4400 is much more substance if you want to go that route of critique.

SpaceMonkey · Post by **SpaceMonkey** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:42 am

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~I'm very fond of future Hiro to. I like the sword strapped to his back. He definately had the super hero feel to him.

Peter has a scar? I missed something.[/quote]

Future-Hiro says something like "you look different without your scar" when he meets with Peter in the subway car. I'm assuming its a bad-ass facial scar (cause otherwise why would he make that comment - peter was pretty covered clothing-wise). He doesn't have a scar now, but obviously Future-Hiro knows a bit more than we do ;)

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:48 am

~~[quote="Skyman"]~~I wouldn't say it's clumsy and forced but it is very much fluff and fun. I think too much detail into this series is obviously against the spirit of the show. Really, nearly all the characters are archtype templates and they read dialogue like a statement of purpose to exist. To me this show rides on the premise strength and if you can't get on the ride...then it'll be like looking at a 40 foot painting 2 inches away.

4400 is much more substance if you want to go that route of critique.[/quote]

Agreed, on both Heroes and 4400.

Gotetsu · Post by **Gotetsu** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:51 am

Personally, I think Daddy knows where all of the supers are, and he's tracking them down as their powers manifest. And the symbol represents some kind of secret society, rather than a government agency. Something like the Illuminati or some such nonsense. So, it's important that it be visible. I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed that all of them have the symbol somewhere. Like a "brand" of some sort.

devlin1 · Post by **devlin1** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:59 am

~~[quote="Neuro"]~~Why in the world do you think it's [the morgue scene] "cheating", Devlin?[/quote]
I don't think it in and of itself is cheating, but I do think the editing of that scene last week (as compared to this week) was unfairly manipulative and a poor storytelling choice. Again, I know that I'm probably alone in this opinion. My first reaction to it last week was "Ha!", then "Wait...." I wanted a more creative explanation for it this week than "We left out a couple minutes."

(Also, I hate that instead of having Claire say "Oh sh--," they changed it to something along the lines of "Oh my gosh." Toothless.)

In addition, I maintain my opposition to the fact that the coroner did a Y-incision before taking the stick out of her head. I'm no expert, obviously, but I find it hard to believe that's the way things work.

I understand everyone's aversion to asking questions; I just don't share it. I want my entertainment to be good and well-crafted no matter what the genre. Yeah, I'll accept that the tree demon in Chinese Ghost Story can demolish a house with her 300-foot tongue or that Marv can go through hell and back in Sin City and still be on his feet, but that's because those movies have only a tenuous connection to our reality as we know it. The strength of "Heroes" is that the only difference between the world presented on the screen and the one in which we live is that they have superpowered people. So when shit happens in that show that doesn't make sense and that shouldn't be affected by that singular difference, it takes me out of the show. I think it's underestimating the creators to suggest that they don't want the show to make us think, which is good because I can't stop thinking regardless. And it's not contrariness and it's not pretension. It's so close to being great that its flaws jump out at me.

I'm of the opinion that it'll get better as it goes along, and rise above some of its more half-assed aspects once it finally makes it through all this painful exposition. In the meantime, I'll keep watching.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:18 pm

~~[quote="devlin1"]~~I'm of the opinion that it'll get better as it goes along, and rise above some of its more half-assed aspects once it finally makes it through all this painful exposition. In the meantime, I'll keep watching.[/quote]

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. My opinion right now, however, is that they are trying to get their audence locked in before they stop doing stuff like that. If they continue to do it after the first 13 episodes, however, then I'll be right there with you complaining.

Chris

Count Zero · Post by **Count Zero** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:14 pm

~~[quote="dnd3eplayer"]~~Future-Hiro says something like "you look different without your scar" when he meets with Peter in the subway car. I'm assuming its a bad-ass facial scar (cause otherwise why would he make that comment - peter was pretty covered clothing-wise). He doesn't have a scar now, but obviously Future-Hiro knows a bit more than we do ;)[/quote]

I had forgotten that.

Something that occured to me, what if Nikki is actually one of the scientists agents. Since he said, "only take the one", maybe the Mirror-Nikki is in fact a created personality which is used for various purposes. I know a stretch, but if they make the henchmen DL, then maybe he stole the money for the scientist or something similar.

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:49 pm

~~[quote="devlin1"]~~In addition, I maintain my opposition to the fact that the coroner did a Y-incision before taking the stick out of her head. I'm no expert, obviously, but I find it hard to believe that's the way things work.[/quote]

I'm no expert either, but it seems reasonable to assume that a coroner would do a full autopsy to make sure that the stick in the head didn't happen after death. That stuff comes up a lot. Don't you ever watch CSI? ha ha.

As of yet, the only thing that's really brought me out of the show was the product placement of the Versa. The little symbol is only a minor thing for me, and I can accept it as part of the cosmology of the show and that (hopefully) they'll come up with a half-way decent explanation.

Count Zero · Post by **Count Zero** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:46 pm

I was nerding out a bit at work and looked at some Heroes forums. Someone theorized that Peter is a mimic and that is why he said he only seems to have powers when other special people are around. I thought that was an interesting theory. Imagine when the entire group gets together.

My wife and I are convinced that the woman hanging around the indian scientist is a plant by some outside organization. It seems far to convienent that she happens to be around. We think she is a spy.

SpaceMonkey · Post by **SpaceMonkey** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:33 pm

~~[quote="mordraine"]~~I'm no expert either, but it seems reasonable to assume that a coroner would do a full autopsy to make sure that the stick in the head didn't happen after death. That stuff comes up a lot. Don't you ever watch CSI? ha ha.

As of yet, the only thing that's really brought me out of the show was the product placement of the Versa. The little symbol is only a minor thing for me, and I can accept it as part of the cosmology of the show and that (hopefully) they'll come up with a half-way decent explanation.[/quote]

There's a huge Versa ad at the beginning of each of the ~~[url=http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/]~~Graphic Novels[/url], also.

~~[SIZE="3"]~~Welcome to[/SIZE] ~~[SIZE="1"]~~Heroes[/SIZE], ~~[SIZE="5"]~~Sponsored by the New Nissan Versa! The most awesomest, time-traveller/stopper-approved car of the century![/SIZE]

devlin1 · Post by **devlin1** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:39 pm

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~I was nerding out a bit at work and looked at some Heroes forums. Someone theorized that Peter is a mimic and that is why he said he only seems to have powers when other special people are around. I thought that was an interesting theory. [/quote]
More than a theory -- they all but explicitly said so in the last episode. I think there's little to no mystery left there about his power.

~~[quote]~~My wife and I are convinced that the woman hanging around the indian scientist is a plant by some outside organization. It seems far to convienent that she happens to be around. We think she is a spy.[/quote]
Huh. See, I think she's a plant put there by the ~~[i]~~writer [/i]so Mohinder has someone to explain things to. Besides us, I mean. I hope to God she's a spy, because I find their total lack of chemistry, and the emptiness of her role, to be one of the weakest things about the show.

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:11 pm

~~[quote="devlin1"]~~

Huh. See, I think she's a plant put there by the ~~[i]~~writer [/i]so Mohinder has someone to explain things to. Besides us, I mean. I hope to God she's a spy, because I find their total lack of chemistry, and the emptiness of her role, to be one of the weakest things about the show.[/quote]

No shit! Her only purpose is to be a writting device so we don't have to hear long neurotic exposition. They will probably alter her role device to either victim or spy when Molhander builds rapport with Mimic boy.

Pretty much all the characters had a meaningless person to sound off to....except Hiro, artist and Mimic boy. The stipper has the red head friend. Cheer leader has the boy with camcorder and bike...they are all gone. Cop has FBI agent...I think they will eventually develope her. Oh by the way Hiro's friend will most likely die...I would expect horrifically because that would be the best plot ploy for the future and take his character up a notch

Now the funny thing about the autopsy piece is that this show is made by the same folks that brought you Crossing Jordan. The whole scene gimick is the same there. So are the subplots...love triangle, shady father, transplanted international ethnic characters and secrets that will never actually be solved but lead you by the nose to keep watching the series. The forced dialogue is there....need I keep going?

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:06 pm

Alright, this show might have some little nitpicky problems, but the sheer volume of coolness completely compensates.

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:22 pm

Fuck the nitpick problems....enjoy the ride. So we know that some dude is removing brains and the father might not be as evil as we think. We also now know that DL is a NWOD Vampire requiem reject with levels in obfuscate...who obviously get womanhandled by the stripper next week. I like how they are trying to get everyone together. In most RPG's this is like one of the hardest to replicate IMHO.

Mord my previous post wasn't trying to nit pick...I went to DnD3eplayers link and found out about the crossing Jordan thing. My wife subjected me to that show so much my eyes bleed from it. Thus everything people are pointing out makes more sense to the shows approach and style. I really like this show because it's straight up fun. I just hope Molhinders father is not really Sylar...

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:44 am

I wasn't specifically talking about you Skyman, or anyone really. I'm just acknowledging that we, as geek fans, love to find the nitpick stuff. But all that aside, this show gets cooler and cooler every week. There were so many COOL moments in last night's episode that I could give a crap about anything nitpicky.

(Those of you who haven't seen the ep yet this week, don't read, cuz there are SPOILERS below)

- Hiro seeing Nathan come in for a landing
- Their subsequent conversation in the diner
- Nathan turning around the blackmail scheme
- Peter going all white-eyes and finishing the painting
- The cop stopping the potential robber, then going all wacko
- Hiro's friend showing up at Nikki's
- Finding out that DL has the invisibility/chameleon powers
- Hiro calling Isaac, Peter answering and saying "I'm Peter Petrelli. I have a message for you," coming full circle from the end of the last ep.

Those were all moments in the show where I said "Fuck yeah!"

Gotetsu · Post by **Gotetsu** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:53 am

~~[quote="mordraine"]~~Those were all moments in the show where I said "Fuck yeah!"[/quote]
QFT

I LOVED this episode. And next week's looks even better! Man, I haven't been this excited about a new show in a LONG time. :biggrin:

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:04 am

~~[quote="Gotetsu"]~~QFT

I LOVED this episode. And next week's looks even better! Man, I haven't been this excited about a new show in a LONG time. :biggrin:[/quote]

Same here! I love this show.

Chris

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:39 am

More spoilers..........that I liked below

The T-shirt with Fly night Cafe...best damn product placing if it actually were
Erasing the Jocks mind...why i think that father isn't completely bad
The politician going super sonic
Hiro not being able to drive the Versa...my wife liked it
The cop seducing his wife
The politician totally stole the whole episode...
Connecting the episode from last week with Hiro and the younger Petrelli really got me to trust the series in not yanking my chain

Neuro · Post by **Neuro** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:50 am

For some reason, I thought finishing the painting was the coolest thing I'd seen yet.

Gotetsu · Post by **Gotetsu** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:38 am

~~[quote="Neuro"]~~For some reason, I thought finishing the painting was the coolest thing I'd seen yet.[/quote]

That was pretty damn cool.

I am starting to wonder if the younger Petrelli's power is to mimic nearby powers...I mean, he has only flown once, and then with his brother nearby, and now he saw the vision of the painting when he was with Isaac.

Probably not, but still. It'd be cool...

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:16 pm

~~[quote="Gotetsu"]~~That was pretty damn cool.

I am starting to wonder if the younger Petrelli's power is to mimic nearby powers...I mean, he has only flown once, and then with his brother nearby, and now he saw the vision of the painting when he was with Isaac.

Probably not, but still. It'd be cool...[/quote]

It is. He said as much last episode.

Chris

Gotetsu · Post by **Gotetsu** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:42 pm

Did he? Huh. I need to watch it again, cuz I missed that.

Neuro · Post by **Neuro** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:10 pm

He did. And if he were too dumb to figure it out, I'd say we have plenty of evidence to stand on by ourselves. (I mean, about the time your eyes glazed over and you painted someone else's vision, you'd sort it out, wouldn't you?)

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:23 pm

I think the effect of the red paint hitting the floor like blood was a nice effect about his completion of the painting

Gotetsu · Post by **Gotetsu** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:25 pm

Ok, so I'm not too swift with the cinematic mysteries. Took me the whole two hours to figure out who Kaiser Sosa was.

Neuro · Post by **Neuro** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:32 pm

Sokay, I'm still confused about Kenny Rogers versus Kenny Loggins or something like that. I'm pretty sure one of them is a country singer and one of them cheats at baseball. And I'm pretty sure I have no idea who Kaiser Sosa is :)

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:37 pm

I thought Kenny Rogers did both...

Don't worry Tom...it's a lot more fun to watch when things are still a mystery

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:33 pm

I don't remember Kaiser Sosa... refresh my memory please?

Also...

Kenny Rogers the gambler:

Kenny Rogers the cheater:

(for those who don't give a shit about baseball, that joke won't make any sense.)

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:30 pm

Mord...I've been told this is Kaiser Soze...

...with more hair. I think Mr. Kobayashi took the photo in Canada

devlin1 · Post by **devlin1** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:30 pm

This week's episode has renewed my faith in the show. There were a lot of cool moments, as Andy and Simon pointed out, but the one I had to go back and watch again was when (highlight to reveal the spoiler!)Nathan shot up into the sky.

I thought Ando showing up at Nikki's was a little forced, but I can live with it. There were plenty of things to balance it. And I feel vindicated that the diner was called Fly By Night.

J@ke · Post by **J@ke** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:13 pm

I thought Kenny Loggins sang "Highway to the Danger Zone"

Count Zero · Post by **Count Zero** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:18 am

~~[quote="devlin1"]~~This week's episode has renewed my faith in the show. There were a lot of cool moments, as Andy and Simon pointed out, but the one I had to go back and watch again was when (highlight to reveal the spoiler!)~~[color=white]~~Nathan shot up into the sky[/color].

I thought Ando showing up at Nikki's was a little forced, but I can live with it. There were plenty of things to balance it. And I feel vindicated that the diner was called Fly By Night.[/quote]

I was very please by the show too. I really liked how they did the flying. I was worried it would be kind of lame.

J@ke · Post by **J@ke** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:27 am

Yeah, the flying was awesome.

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:56 am

For those who haven't seen last night's ep yet... SPOILER WARNING!

So, now we know for sure that little pixie girl works for Cheerleader's dad. And we also know for sure that Mirror-Niki (Mirror-MILF as she's being called on some other forums) is a villlain. And it looks like her hubby DL is actually a good guy.

I love the ambiguous nature of a lot of the characters.

Count Zero · Post by **Count Zero** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:14 am

~~[quote="mordraine"]~~For those who haven't seen last night's ep yet... SPOILER WARNING!

So, now we know for sure that little pixie girl works for Cheerleader's dad. And we also know for sure that Mirror-Niki (Mirror-MILF as she's being called on some other forums) is a villlain. And it looks like her hubby DL is actually a good guy.

I love the ambiguous nature of a lot of the characters.[/quote]

I really dislike the Nikki character. I just don't find her that interesting. I could see some interesting Villian personality/Good Personality interactions, but to be honest... I find that characer just dull. I am more interested in DL, Hiro, Ando, and the Petrelli Brothers. Out of all the characters they could have done a "focus on a character" episode, Nikki is one I really didn't want to see.

I look forward to the episode when they all get together so that we don't have to do these chopped up episodes anymore.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:19 am

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~I really dislike the Nikki character. I just don't find her that interesting. I could see some interesting Villian personality/Good Personality interactions, but to be honest... I find that characer just dull. I am more interested in DL, Hiro, Ando, and the Petrelli Brothers. Out of all the characters they could have done a "focus on a character" episode, Nikki is one I really didn't want to see.

I look forward to the episode when they all get together so that we don't have to do these chopped up episodes anymore.[/quote]

I susspect that the entire first season is going to be these "chopped up" episodes. They will figure out the whole bomb thing and be there to stop it just as it stats to go off in the last episode of the season and... "To Be Continued!"

As to Nikki (I call her mirror image Ms. Hyde), her good side is a little dull, I grant you. But, now that she has accepted Ms. Hyde as existing, it should get interesting to see what she does. Will she learn to controll it? Will she eventually join the good guys? or will she be lost, and Ms. Hyde take over, and she tries to kill DL and the rest of the heroes? I, for one, look forward to finding out.

Also, I want to know what the kids power is.

Chris

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:22 am

My favorite line from last night came from Cheerleader's dad:

Pixie Girl - "He was speaking to a guy who can stop time."
Cheerleader's Dad - "That's cool!"

(Also, I still like Niki. And I think we'll be seeing a manifestation of Mikah's superintelligence power fairly soon).

(Also also, I *like* the chopped up eps)

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:27 am

~~[quote="mordraine"]~~(Also also, I *like* the chopped up eps)[/quote]

Actually, me too.

Chris

Count Zero · Post by **Count Zero** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:29 pm

~~[quote="mordraine"]~~(Also also, I *like* the chopped up eps)[/quote]

Generally, I don't mind it, but I feel like nothing every really happens because they are trying to tell too many stories. You have the Cop, Brother 1, Brother 2, Isaac, Hiro, Nikki, and Claire. All in different locations, all with different storylines.

While I love lost for the variety of characters, they tend to focus on interrelated storylines much better. It might be because they aren't so spread out across an area like in Heroes. With the latest season of Lost I haven't been too fond of the separate "Captured" Storyline and the main storyline because it feels like there isn't enough time to tell the story.

I look forward to seeing some of these storylines combine. So we get Brother 1 & 2 and Issac together in the next episode or two. Apparently, Hiro and DL intersect, so that will tidy things up too.

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:03 pm

I like the episode...I don't mind the interwoven scenes because the characters have a main goal. I think that's one part that makes the stripper kinda periphral right now...because she has no drive toward the NY going nuclear. The home page for the show has a comic that explains her motive for killing DL's friends.
Observation and conspiracy theories below:

The symbol is like half of a double helix in a genetic code
I thought it was weird that Hiro couldn't stop time in the closet
It would be a stretch to think the stripper killed Mohinders father...but I like it if she was Sylar
The cheerleader mom possibly gave clues to Fathers interest in all this
DL is Kitty Pride cool
I wonder what is Pixies power
Nice hooks

Count Zero · Post by **Count Zero** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:15 am

I think that may be the main thing for me. Nikki's storyline seems to have nothing to do with the overall plot. Hopefully that will change

~~[quote="Skyman"]~~
I thought it was weird that Hiro couldn't stop time in the closet

I wonder what is Pixies power[/quote]

I think Hiro just got distracted because it takes him a second or two to activate it. Pixie? Are you talking about Eden?

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:30 am

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~Nikki's storyline seems to have nothing to do with the overall plot.
[/quote]

Sure it does. Mr. Lenderman, the who she owned money to (and how owns that $2 Mil she stole) is Claire's Dad.

Chris

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:23 am

~~[quote="BlanchPrez"]~~Sure it does. Mr. Lenderman, the who she owned money to (and how owns that $2 Mil she stole) is Claire's Dad.[/quote]

Huh?

How'd you come up with that? What'd I miss?

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:27 am

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~I think that may be the main thing for me. Nikki's storyline seems to have nothing to do with the overall plot. Hopefully that will change[/quote]

You guys and your instant gratification. Sheesh.

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~I think Hiro just got distracted because it takes him a second or two to activate it. [/quote]

That's what I thought too. Hiro didn't have time to do his time trick while the shit was going down. He's too hard on himself.

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~Pixie? Are you talking about Eden?[/quote]

He's talking about the girl hanging around with Mohinder who's working for Claire's dad. Is her name Eden? For some reason I've never caught it.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:32 am

~~[quote="mordraine"]~~Huh?

How'd you come up with that? What'd I miss?[/quote]

It's a theroy of mine. It would explaine how he not only knew where Nate was when he was in Vagas, but also how he could get into his room and take him without the security cameras getting him.

Chris

Count Zero · Post by **Count Zero** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:51 am

~~[quote="BlanchPrez"]~~It's a theroy of mine. It would explaine how he not only knew where Nate was when he was in Vagas, but also how he could get into his room and take him without the security cameras getting him.[/quote]

hmm... maybe.. but to be honest all you need is his scary psychic and you have access which no one notices.

Skyman · Post by **Skyman** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:21 pm

~~[quote="Count Zero"]~~hmm... maybe.. but to be honest all you need is his scary psychic and you have access which no one notices.[/quote]

Also Molhinder and pixie had been tracking him down before that. During Molhinders encounter he mentions having to leave for Las Vegan.

devlin1 · Post by **devlin1** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:22 pm

~~[quote="mordraine"]~~Is her name Eden? For some reason I've never caught it.[/quote]
I think Mohinder called her by name this past episode. It's good to know she's a plant (and all praise to BP for calling that one a couple weeks ago), because I just wasn't buying them together. It seemed too... ~~[i]~~forced[/i]. Well, now I know it's because it ~~[i]~~was [/i]forced.

I thought the fight between Nikki and DL was pretty sweet, though short-lived. His Shadowcatness is cool, but I don't understand why Nikki's goateed twin is superstrong. It striikes me as pretty arbitrary.

Also, considering his power: DL = Down Low? Part of me wishes every character had a similarly appropriate name. "Nikki" is so close to being a palindrome, but not quite. The palindrome would suit her. Hiro's name is an obvious (but good) one, of course. I haven't really given much thought to the others.

Oh, also -- I wouldn't expect "Mr. Lenderman" to be a real name. Sounds like a pseudonym.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:28 pm

~~[quote="devlin1"]~~Oh, also -- I wouldn't expect "Mr. Lenderman" to be a real name. Sounds like a pseudonym.[/quote]

Exactly. Remember, no one has seen Mr. Lenderman. My guess is it's one of many disguisses Clair's Dad uses as he travels.

Chris

mordraine · Post by **mordraine** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:48 pm

It's an interesting pseudonym for a loan shark...