Wanna Help Out?

[Count Zero]

I was poking around various websites tonight. I stopped at Michaelmoore.com and was reading the letters. I noticed this one...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films ... x.php?id=3

Now whether or not you agree with the soldier or Moore I noticed the thing about school supplies. I was thinking of putting together a box of stuff and sending it to this soldier. Anyone interested in helping out?

Jonathan

[Wintermute]

Maybe I'm a horrible person, but I'd prefer to help underfundered American schools.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

Mind you, I'm feeling particuarly dour today.

"Sorry we bombed the shit out of you. Here, have some pencils."

I'm tired of helping out schools in general. I guess I'm tired of it because I get taxed, and it goes to shit I don't support, and then I become this enabler, because the school can struggle on without *real* funding, which only encourages fucktards to cut school funding *more*.

When they start going door to door, asking for contributions for bombs and bullets, then I'll consider donating to a school.

[Count Zero]

ooooookay then.... I will do it on my own then...

Jonathan

[Skyman]

Probably want to put this in the spam forum or advertisement...

[opwunder]

My wife has taught at the elementary level for over 24 years. She spends, on an average, $1500.00 a year for supplies, teaching materials, and student incentives. I think I have donated enough to education already. I also have grave doubts that a box of pencils will truly sway anyone to be pro-American...

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="opwunder"]My wife has taught at the elementary level for over 24 years. She spends, on an average, $1500.00 a year for supplies, teaching materials, and student incentives. I think I have donated enough to education already. I also have grave doubts that a box of pencils will truly sway anyone to be pro-American...[/quote]

True, but are we donating to make someone pro-American, or are we donating to make sure they get a good education.



Me personally, I feel that if I did donate, then Mr Bush and friends would use my goodwill toward their political benefit.



Fuck them. Fuck them with pencils.

[mordraine]

[quote="Skyman"]Probably want to put this in the spam forum or advertisement...[/quote]

Yes true. Not a thread that belongs in the Discussion forum (which, strictly speaking, is a forum for discussing RPG stuff in general). Anything non RPG related should be posted to Spam.

[Count Zero]

I was just going to blow it all off... but....

Wow...You guys are all some cynical sons of bitches.....

Its about doing something that's good. Sure you will say we should support our underfunded schools but you won't do anything about it and you will probably vote against that next bond issue.

And I am sure that sending pencils to a collection of kids in another country will really support the war effort.

Ooo wait.... I have given enough... that's another good one. That's my favorite.

Some things are good to do... see it isn't that you guys care about politics or underfunded schools... it just struck me that you are too lazy or simply don't give a shit. That just tells me that you guys are really lame.

I doubt any of you actually care about what is going on in this country or Iraq. You don't really care that we went to war for lies or that civil rights are being stomped on. You don't really care that 20,000+ Iraqis have died in the war. It just gives you something to bitch about and a tool to make yourself feel better than those stupid conservatives/liberals. It just makes you feel important and feel like you are doing something.

hmm.... I just expected something a little better....

[mordraine]

Umm... should I now send this to Debate?

[Lowly Uhlan]

[quote="Count Zero"]


Some things are good to do... see it isn't that you guys care about politics or underfunded schools... it just struck me that you are too lazy or simply don't give a shit. That just tells me that you guys are really lame.



I doubt any of you actually care about what is going on in this country or Iraq. You don't really care that we went to war for lies or that civil rights are being stomped on. You don't really care that 20,000+ Iraqis have died in the war. It just gives you something to bitch about and a tool to make yourself feel better than those stupid conservatives/liberals. It just makes you feel important and feel like you are doing something.
[/quote]

Dude, don't get pissed off because people don't agree with you. You're posting on a gaming website and you should have expected off the wall feedback.



There's a bunch of packages of notebook paper laying around in my parent's garage. I'll see if they'll give them to me, then I'll give them to you. Both my sister and stepmom work at Staples and I'll see if I can drag anything up.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

heh. I think CZ is just having one of his 'liberal moments' again. Remember the helicopter footage? We were all bloodthirsty animals that at the innards of babies because we were impressed and/or stunned at the violence from an Apache Helicopter?

I mean, I'm really suprised I took time out of watching "Faces of Death - The Complete Series" to even both responding to the pencil box post. It must have been when they were only killing some animal, or a particularly non-bloody scene.

I guess I could get all offended and mention that sending pencils to a country that needs clean, potable water is possibly one of the most useless gestures I've ever seen in my life, but 1) that would be mean and just demean your gesture and 2) wouldn't be true, because I've read dumber ideas, but not necessarily more condescending. But I'm not going to get all offended about it because that would really go against your image of me being an uncaring bastard who throws children in the gutter because I might be creating the next Charles Dickens.

CZ, please don't think this response means that I'm necessarily interested in your opinion, or even in debunking it, because I wouldn't want to deprive you of your self-righteousness.

[cczernia]

Yeah, I've always had the policy of not doing anything at all. A bugger on the street, fuck him, he doesn't deserve my hard earned cash. He can sink or swim like the rest of us and if he chooses to sink he won't receive a penny from me to buy the booze to escape from it.

I mean, any gesture to help people out is just abused by someone or redirected toward something. So, I say we put an end to kindness and being helpful. It really is a worthless concept and most Unamerican. So, let the the cancer eat us away, the aids patients die in their beds, keep the poor stupid. As long as it doesn't require me to lift a finger a spend a cent than I'm happy. Because nothing we do works anyway.

[Wintermute]

Hey Count Zero, way to fill a post with baseless accusations and poor assumptions! Maybe you should take the time to actually understand our points of view, instead of calling us wrong because we disagree with you on this point.

Let's see, so far you've assumed the following:

1. I won't do anything about underfunded American schools, and will probably vote against the next school bond.

2. I'm lazy and apathetic.

3. I don't care about what's going on in this country.

4. I don't care what's going on in Iraq.

5. I don't care that we went to war for lies.

6. I don't care that my civil rights are being stepped on.

7. I don't really care that 20,000+ Iraqis have died in the car.

8. I feel better than those stupid conservatives and liberals (which is true... I feel better than stupid people of all political views!)

9. Bitching makes me feel important.

Soooo, we've got 9 assumptions in your post about me, all because I stated that I'd rather help underfunded American schools. I'll reply with just one assumption... that you don't know shit about me, and I'd kindly appreciate it if you do a little bit of homework before accusing me of all these things. It's not like I'm secretive about my views, and your arguments would hold a lot more water if you knew thing one about me.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="cczernia"]Yeah, I've always had the policy of not doing anything at all. A bugger on the street, fuck him, he doesn't deserve my hard earned cash. He can sink or swim like the rest of us and if he chooses to sink he won't receive a penny from me to buy the booze to escape from it.



I mean, any gesture to help people out is just abused by someone or redirected toward something. So, I say we put an end to kindness and being helpful. It really is a worthless concept and most Unamerican. So, let the the cancer eat us away, the aids patients die in their beds, keep the poor stupid. As long as it doesn't require me to lift a finger a spend a cent than I'm happy. Because nothing we do works anyway.[/quote]

Right on man! Hey, lets get together and roll some homeless people! Sometimes you get a couple of bucks out of it. Nothing like a bit of the ultraviolent!

[Wintermute]

[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]Right on man! Hey, lets get together and roll some homeless people! Sometimes you get a couple of bucks out of it. Nothing like a bit of the ultraviolent![/quote]

Rolling homeless people always makes me hungry. Let's eat some babies after that, I hear the president cooks up a good one.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="Wintermute"]Hey Count Zero, way to fill a post with baseless accusations and poor assumptions! [/quote]

Didn't we have a baseless accusation thread?



Why yes! [url=http://rpg-sandiego.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1469&amp]We did[/url]

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="Wintermute"][quote:d7c0281d2f="BreakfastOfChampions"]Right on man! Hey, lets get together and roll some homeless people! Sometimes you get a couple of bucks out of it. Nothing like a bit of the ultraviolent![/quote]

Rolling homeless people always makes me hungry. Let's eat some babies after that, I hear the president cooks up a good one.[/quote:d7c0281d2f]



Well, of course he does! He uses Cheney's own recipe!

[Lowly Uhlan]

[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]


Right on man! Hey, lets get together and roll some homeless people! Sometimes you get a couple of bucks out of it. Nothing like a bit of the ultraviolent![/quote]

Just before I play any minis game I go kill a hobo with a hammer. Gets me in a good aggressive frame of mind.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"][quote:b1173486bb="BreakfastOfChampions"]



Right on man! Hey, lets get together and roll some homeless people! Sometimes you get a couple of bucks out of it. Nothing like a bit of the ultraviolent![/quote]

Just before I play any minis game I go kill a hobo with a hammer. Gets me in a good aggressive frame of mind.[/quote:b1173486bb]



:lolup:



I dunno why its so funny, but it is!

[Lowly Uhlan]

You guys should try it before roleplaying. :shock: :)

[Jake]

Personally I think CZ is right. Several points coming.

Under-funded American schools. Helping these kids at a time like could only help us. And these schools are crazy under-funded. These kids would probably be whistling Dixie out of their assholes to go to our shiftiest school.

BoC you get taxed? Tough shit. So do we all. If you’re that worried about taxes remember that you can always write it off.

It might not sway anyone to be pro-American but it might sway them not to completely fucking hate us. Or at the very least open the eyes of one kid so he doesn’t grow up to be a suicide bomber.

And this is hardly a dumb idea. Potable water? Yes that would be nice. But at 8lbs a gallon it would be really hard to ship. I’ve always believed that education is one of the most beneficial things in society.

And as to why CZ got pissed. Can you really blame him? The guy goes out of the way to try and do something nice. Something that he thinks might actually make this world a better place. And not only does he not get any support, but people specifically make an effort to shit on his idea.

[devlin1]

[quote="Wintermute"]Let's see, so far you've assumed the following:
[/quote]
You forgot one:
[quote="Count Zero"]That just tells me that you guys are really lame. [/quote]
I am [i]not [/i]lame! :cry:

[devlin1]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"]
Just before I play any minis game I go kill a hobo with a hammer. Gets me in a good aggressive frame of mind.[/quote]
I prefer a cricket bat, but yeah.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="Jake"]Personally I think CZ is right. Several points coming.



Under-funded American schools. Helping these kids at a time like could only help us. And these schools are crazy under-funded. These kids would probably be whistling Dixie out of their assholes to go to our shiftiest school.



BoC you get taxed? Tough shit. So do we all. If you’re that worried about taxes remember that you can always write it off.
[/quote]

I seem to miss where this became the 'lets stuff words into people's mouth' thread.



I got an idea. Next time you think you understand my position, you might want to ask some questions first, because you obviously don't undestand my position.



Cheers!

[Jake]

OK then what was your point that justifies shitting on his intentions?

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="Jake"]OK then what was your point that justifies shitting on his intentions?[/quote]

What's it to you? Besides, I didn't realize that intentions were so golden that people couldn't state opinions about them.



What makes you think this is such a golden idea, anyway? More accurately that its so golden that it doesn't deserve critique?



Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be clicking that link that gives a free cup of dogfood to a homeless man.

[Jake]

[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]What's it to you? Besides, I didn't realize that intentions were so golden that people couldn't state opinions about them.[/quote]
Hey man, you’re the one that wanted me to understand your position.


[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]What makes you think this is such a golden idea, anyway? More accurately that its so golden that it doesn't deserve critique?[/quote]
Shit is really fucked up over there. All we seem to do is bitch about it, my self included. How do you think all the posting and bitching helped? This is something cheap and simple that we could do to make is a bit better over there. And it would help the next generation of Iraqis out there that have very little reason to like us right now. Will it make up for all the shit we’ve done? No. But that’s no reason not to try to make a small difference. And like I said, I think education is one of the most important parts on a society. I hardly think I need to make an argument for the benefits of education to this group. These are critical times in these kids’ lives and this simple act might make these times just a little less fucked up.



And finally it was just rude.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="Jake"][quote:2857b05c4d="BreakfastOfChampions"]What's it to you? Besides, I didn't realize that intentions were so golden that people couldn't state opinions about them.[/quote]
Hey man, you’re the one that wanted me to understand your position.

[/quote:2857b05c4d]



Actually, I said you don't know fuck one about my position. I honestly don't care if you understand it.


[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]What makes you think this is such a golden idea, anyway? More accurately that its so golden that it doesn't deserve critique?[/quote]
[quote]
Shit is really fucked up over there. All we seem to do is bitch about it, my self included.
[/quote]

Wrong. You might not do anything about it. That's your choice. Stop lumping me with inactive you.





Now just to get this sorry little thread on track, my big beef is with CZ making wildassed assumptions about our dissing his great idea. Whether its a good idea or not, where do you get off defending his wild assumptions when he obviously doesn't know?

[Neuro]

Several months ago, when my church was still a church, a request came from the higher-ups to collect supplies to send to children in some country. The request came on a day when we had just been told that the higher-ups weren't going to foot the bill for our pastor's paycheck for the last, oh, year or so. The congregation, a poor one, was at wit's end, trying to scrape up cash to pay the man the cared so much for who'd worked and worked for no compensation for a year and more. At the same time, they were still collecting for kids in our very own area, homeless kids who needed just the basics to survive.

And here was yet another request for funds and support we could not give.

Even people with the best of hearts and the best of intentions don't always have the resource to give and give and give. Resources are ultimately, regrettably finite.

That's the point at which people must prioritize. What can you do? What can you do as an individual and as a group? Our decision? Send the higher ups a note, "We'd like to help you, but here's what we're doing in our community. We have children in need here, too. We're doing all we can."

The discussion of how to use resource is an important one and everyone isn't always going to come to the same conclusion. At best we can hope that individuals come to a good conclusion, however different it may be.

[mordraine]

[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"][quote:479d768d41="Jake"][quote:479d768d41="BreakfastOfChampions"]What's it to you? Besides, I didn't realize that intentions were so golden that people couldn't state opinions about them.[/quote]
Hey man, you’re the one that wanted me to understand your position.

[/quote:479d768d41]



Actually, I said you don't know fuck one about my position. I honestly don't care if you understand it.[/quote:479d768d41]


[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]I got an idea. Next time you think you understand my position, you might want to ask some questions first, because you obviously don't undestand my position. [/quote]

The way I read that, it sounds like you're inviting him to ask about your position.

[devlin1]

Oh, snap!

[Jake]

[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]Actually, I said you don't know fuck one about my position. I honestly don't care if you understand it.[/quote]
Hateful BoC very hateful. I’m willing to bet you do care, or you wouldn’t have responded to any of my posts. Now I can only gather two possible points bout your initial post. Either you feel you get taxed too much and feel you give enough to the world, or you don’t like where your taxes are going to and you think that helping out these kids has something to do with that.
[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]Wrong. You might not do anything about it. That's your choice. Stop lumping me with inactive you.[/quote]
Look for the subtleties of the language. I said “seems”. [i]To give a certain impression or have a certain outward aspect.[/i] I in no way implied that that was all we, or for that matter you, do to help. I just meant that with all the effort we give to discuss this world this idea might be something very simple that we can do to actually make a difference. No matter how small. And if you really do your part, that’s great. The more polite response would have been “Sorry CZ but I already do this and that”. Instead you said that his idea was dumb because of something to do with taxes.



And I’m sorry I lead any of you to believe I was supporting CZ’s accusations. I wasn’t. I only meant to say that your initial postings were lame and I could see why he got upset.

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="Jake"][quote:a6466d5d05="BreakfastOfChampions"]Actually, I said you don't know fuck one about my position. I honestly don't care if you understand it.[/quote]
Hateful BoC very hateful. I’m willing to bet you do care, or you wouldn’t have responded to any of my posts. Now I can only gather two possible points bout your initial post. Either you feel you get taxed too much and feel you give enough to the world, or you don’t like where your taxes are going to and you think that helping out these kids has something to do with that.

[/quote:a6466d5d05]

Wrong again, Sherlock.
[quote]
[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]Wrong. You might not do anything about it. That's your choice. Stop lumping me with inactive you.[/quote]
Look for the subtleties of the language. I said “seems”. [i]To give a certain impression or have a certain outward aspect.[/i] I in no way implied that that was all we, or for that matter you, do to help. I just meant that with all the effort we give to discuss this world this idea might be something very simple that we can do to actually make a difference. No matter how small. And if you really do your part, that’s great. The more polite response would have been “Sorry CZ but I already do this and that”. Instead you said that his idea was dumb because of something to do with taxes.
[/quote]
Well, you gave the impression. That impression is wrong. Again. Try rereading my posts. And if you come away with the same idea, then its now officially your issue. Enjoy.


[quote]
And I’m sorry I lead any of you to believe I was supporting CZ’s accusations. I wasn’t. I only meant to say that your initial postings were lame and I could see why he got upset.[/quote]

Then *you* do something about it, but bitching because people think an idea is lame is pretty damn stupid. YMMV.

[Jake]

[quote="BreakfastOfChampions"]Well, you gave the impression. That impression is wrong. Again. Try rereading my posts. And if you come away with the same idea, then its now officially your issue. Enjoy.[/quote]

At least I had the courtesy to try and clarify my remarks. And without resorting to such biting barbs as “Sherlock”.

[smartmonkey]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

[Gotetsu]

Jeez, I go to the sticks in New York for a week (I'll start a new thread in Spam about that), and you guys get all "Political Blah Blah" on me. :roll: Whatever happened to the "My character kicks your character's ass" threads? :D

My work gathered stuff to send to soldiers in Iraq. Stuff like toiletries, books, magazines, snack foods, etc... I thought THAT was a pretty cool idea. Having been in Desert Storm, I know I would have appreicated it. However, I also know that only REMFs will get what we send, but still. It was a noble idea.

But I have to agree. Pencils are not the answer. Iraq has a potentially powerful economy that can more than support the Iraqi people. If a couple of things happen. 1) those Fucktard Millitants stop chopping off heads, and realise that what we are trying to do is of benefit to their people, and not JUST a ploy to broaden our powerbase (notice the "JUST"), and 2) they need elect a stable government who can control the country and set up their economy. Will this be easy? No. Will this take time? Apparantly. Will sending pencils to them help. Not really, but it might make some people sleep better at night, so there's a positive.

I also agree that we need to be generous within our means and prioritize who gets our charity. Personally, I kind of want America to be a better place. We have spent the last 200 years helping out other countries (and I use the word "helping" loosely), and I think it's high time we put a little effort into helping our own.

[Wintermute]

[quote="Gotetsu"]My work gathered stuff to send to soldiers in Iraq. Stuff like toiletries, books, magazines, snack foods, etc... I thought THAT was a pretty cool idea. Having been in Desert Storm, I know I would have appreicated it. However, I also know that only REMFs will get what we send, but still. It was a noble idea.
[/quote]

We did the same, and donated quite a bit of stuff (as organized by one of my co-worker's husbands). When he got back from Iraq, he presented us with an American Flag, which I thought was pretty cool.

[Skyman]

CZ,
No, at this time but thanx for asking.

Jake,
Nice Avatar. That was 15 minutes of pure gaze joy. I thought he was asking too, BTW.

Mordraine,
Nice call with the move to debate. I didn't think it would go this way till the flame fest.

Ubi caritas et amor....

[Lowly Uhlan]

[quote="Gotetsu"]
Whatever happened to the "My character kicks your character's ass" threads? :D
[/quote]

They don't exist any more. :roll: :x

[opwunder]

Count Zero,

All I can say is that the only ignorance I've seen on this page was doled out buy Count Zero...You accuse without fact or basis, shame on you...perhaps we should just assume that the second part of name sums up how much time you spent actually reading what people said and listening to it instead of having a baby fit because no one wants to play with you.

To the rest on this site, I appologise for my tone, but my wife (a teacher of special education) and I have done more during our lives to help this world then sit in a corner and cry and sling baseless accusations when no one likes our ideas.

You want to send pencils to Iraq, no one here said you couldn't. Just because some of us don't wish to join you is no justification for your tasteless attack.

Aw, fuck it, what's the point

[devlin1]

[quote="Lowly Uhlan"][quote:ba52dd085b="Gotetsu"]

Whatever happened to the "My character kicks your character's ass" threads? :D
[/quote]

They don't exist any more. :roll: :x[/quote:ba52dd085b]

xx

[Lowly Uhlan]

xx

xxxxxx

xx

x

:D

[smartmonkey]

Oh, dude, who the hell scared devlin off? He's gonna have to spend the next six hours tracking down every single post he made, and replacing them with a xx.

Bastards!

[Lowly Uhlan]

He was upset that no one would playtest his great new game that he made himself :D

[smartmonkey]

Really? I didn't know he designed HYBRID.

So much is explained, now...

[Count Zero]

I will admit part of the point of that 3rd post was to get you fired up. This isn't about someone disagreeing with my point of view. This is about being a decent human being.

But the fact of the matter is, what each of you did was rude. If you didn't want to participate, that's fine. Don't respond. Your responses were rude. They were unnecessary comments. You could have just let the crickets chirp on this one, but you felt the need to denegrate the idea with your posts.

Whether or not these are baseless accusations, is a silly arguement. So I am not going to waste my time. Those comments were there to hit on what everyone have been on tirades about on this board. It was to hit nerves. And it worked. But all of you clearly missed the point.

The question was: Do you really care and are you willing make the effort to change things? I upset the balance. I forced you to actually look at what you have done, and maybe some of you didn't like what you saw.

We rant every day about the situation in Iraq. No potable water? That's almost criminal, but is that something you or I can really do anything about? Not really. We can push our government a little to work harder, but we really can't make a difference on that subject.

Sure sending school supplies to kids in Iraq isn't going to change the situation there that much. But that isn't why I am doing it. This is truely alturistic act. It actually improves someone's life. It is something we can effect. This makes another human being's life better. You can't argue whether or not it is good thing to do. There is no arguement.

Will it really change things that much. No. But, it will improve someone's life. One person can rarely change the world, but they can make a dent, and that's something. A butterfly flapping its wings won't create a hurricane, but 230 million butterflies might. It is the collective action of individuals that changes the world for the better. Did Martin Luther King Jr. solely earn civil rights for blacks across the country? Not truely, he was just one butterfly. It was really the millions of people who stood up and said no more. That's when we got the hurricane.

We can pound on these keyboards and scream and rant all we want. But, does it really do anything? No. It doesn't change a thing. It just makes us feel like we are. It's an opiate that makes us feel important. It makes us feel like we are keeping the faith. But faith is meaningless without works.

Now, I am going to do this. The more people that want to participate the better. But if you don't want to participate, then that's fine. Don't participate, that is your choice. If you aren't going to participate then be quite, because all you are doing is slowing down the process.

I'm going to help someone in a tangible way. You can either help, or get out of the way.

Don't want to do this and want to help your local community instead? Awesome. Do it. Don't talk about doing it. DO IT! Don't buy that $100.00 World Largest Dungeon that you don't really need. Instead go to a local school and buy some kids or a classroom $100 in school supplies. I am sure they could use it. Give the $25 you would spend on the next unnecessarry D&D D20 book to the local homeless shelter. Take the $49.95 you spend on an X-Box game and give it to your church so they can help people. The key is, do something and stop talking about.

Jonathan

[devlin1]

D20 sux!!!!

[Gotetsu]

[quote="devlin1"]D20 sux!!!![/quote]

"Thou shalt have no other RPG systems before me! For I am a jealous and wrathful system, and thou shalt suffer a -30 penalty to all of your saves." -[i]The D20 Bible[/i].



Seriously, CZ, your intentions are noble, and I applaud you. But, and I can say this beacuse I think I have done it more than you, you really need to watch the tone and attitude of your words. People on these boards are very sensitive (you included), so "stirring things up" will often do more harm then good.



Just my $.02. :D

[BreakfastOfChampions]

[quote="devlin1"]D20 sux!!!![/quote]



D20 R00lz! D6 Dr00lz!