Character Creation

[SpaceMonkey]

Ability Rolls: 4d6 drop lowest, arrange as desired. You may roll up to 3 sets, pick the one you like.

Experience Level: You may choose your class/classes and level to wherever that gets them using the same number of experience points a 9th level fighter would have (no book in front of me at the moment).

Allowed stuff: PHB, Unearthed Arcana. Otherwise ask. Also, I'm not enamored with 1e psionics.

Pick amongst yourselves what classes & such you want to be - I'll plan accordingly. If you want to do an all-thief party or something similar that's fine.

You'll each need to come up with a basic outline of one of the adventurer's who took out the giants originally - your relatives as it were. You can choose a name for their group if you want, or I may later. I'll fill them out, add some others and post notes later. Do choose one to be descended from or related to (elves & such may be older than them, for example), but it does not have to be the one you outlined. We're only going for general flavor here - they are the old guard and this campaign is about you guys (or your characters anyway).

Bear in mind this game will be old-school in nature, so expect it to be challenging and plan accordingly. Any questions, let me know.

[devlin1]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Allowed stuff: PHB, Unearthed Arcana. Otherwise ask. [/quote]
Re: magic items: How much stuff? GP value? Or spend XP to buy magic items?

[SpaceMonkey]

Not sure yet, I need to review some 1e stuff. I'll let you know shortly.

[devlin1]

Because I rolled like unto a god -- 17, 14, 13, 7, 10, 18 or 14, 15, 15, 11, 8, 18 -- I'm going to be either a ranger (9th), a paladin (8th), or a barbarian (7th). One good thing about AD&D is that a 7 or an 8 doesn't immediately mean "useless," or even a penalty of any kind. 7 Charisma? So? You can still have three henchmen! 7 Dex? No AC penalty!

Ranger seems perfect if we're going "against the giants." Probably the only reason to play a paladin is just because I rolled well; I'm already playing a paladinish crusader on Sundays, and besides, paladins are often not especially fun to be around. But AD&D barbarian... hmm, so tempting. Move at 30" a round, crazy bonuses to AC, HP, and saves, d12 hit dice, fight like a fighter, hide like a thief, track like a ranger, jump like a leopard -- it's all quite good.

[jimmy corrigan]

i bought a 6th printing of ad&d today for 2 clams at a local bookstore. i thought i'd roll my race, class, and alignment dice thrice and pick the best-- but i'm not sure how valid that would be considering that there are all sorts of restrictions in 1st edition that i am not used to... i might need a tutor with all of this.

[devlin1]

[quote="jimmy corrigan"]i bought a 6th printing of ad&d today for 2 clams at a local bookstore. i thought i'd roll my race, class, and alignment dice thrice and pick the best-- but i'm not sure how valid that would be considering that there are all sorts of restrictions in 1st edition that i am not used to... i might need a tutor with all of this.[/quote]
Yeah, it's a little harder to do that class/race/alignment dice-thing with AD&D, since every class has ability minimums -- as do most races. So you need to roll ability scores first, see what you get, and [i]then[/i] pick your race and class.



Damn! Bard has ability requirements for [i]every ability[/i]. Being a bard would be awesome.

[Skyman]

[quote="jimmy corrigan"]i bought a 6th printing of ad&d today for 2 clams at a local bookstore. i thought i'd roll my race, class, and alignment dice thrice and pick the best-- but i'm not sure how valid that would be considering that there are all sorts of restrictions in 1st edition that i am not used to... i might need a tutor with all of this.[/quote]

If you need help...just let me know

[devlin1]

Hey Sam, what's your stance on Exceptional Strength for fighter sub-classes? Can paladins, rangers, and barbarians get it, too, or just fighters? In the RAW, it's just fighters -- their only real class feature apart from being able to build a stronghold at 9th level -- but I know it was a pretty common houserule to extend that to the subclasses too.

[jimmy corrigan]

[quote="Skyman"]If you need help...just let me know[/quote]
thanks, skyman. i think i figured it out. i think. i'll give ya a holler if i get stuck though.

[SpaceMonkey]

[quote="devlin1"]Hey Sam, what's your stance on Exceptional Strength for fighter sub-classes? Can paladins, rangers, and barbarians get it, too, or just fighters? In the RAW, it's just fighters -- their only real class feature apart from being able to build a stronghold at 9th level -- but I know it was a pretty common houserule to extend that to the subclasses too.[/quote]

Ha, Ha, Ha! that's a good one.

[devlin1]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Ha, Ha, Ha! that's a good one.[/quote]
I'll take that as a "No"....

[devlin1]

No, wait -- Unearthed Arcana clearly indicates that fighter sub-classes can have Exceptional Strength (and also overrides the PHB racial limits on Strength), so my question isn't so laughable after all.

[jimmy corrigan]

well, i think it's a laughable question. but for totally different reasons.

[SpaceMonkey]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Ha, Ha, Ha! that's a good one.[/quote]

Sorry - it was late for such a long day. I was just laughing with nostalgia, not answering. What I should have said was:



Ha, Ha, Ha - that's a good one! ... because back in the day this was one of the prime points of conjecture and argument and multiple groups I was in gnawed it back and forth until later when we pretty much decided definitively that if rangers & such in modules had 18/% strength then it was pretty clear that all fighter subclasses got it, paladin included (paladin also gets exceptional charisma & such from AU).



Weapon Specialization is only for fighter/ranger.

[devlin1]

Gotcha. Thanks much.

Re: our forebears, how long ago did they go against the giants? Twenty years? More? Less?

[SpaceMonkey]

Well, G1-3 are traditionally set a bit later, but for our purposes here I was thinking about 35 years or so. That gives some of the longer lived races a chance to have upstarty young heroes if they want, or you can have an older nephew or similar. Consider the lattitude fairly broad - the setup isn't about limiting your choices after all..

[devlin1]

All right.

Elven fighter/magic-user/thief-acrobat. 7/8/8. Bow specialist.

(Hey, it could be worse -- I could cheese it up with a dart specialist.)

He's the son of the elven fighter/magic-user freed by the previous party from the hill giants' demesne (look it up!). Now that that party's children/nephews/nieces/whatever have gathered to face a renewed threat from the giants, [my character] joins them out of a sense of obligation on behalf of his forebear (who... I dunno... was hit by a bus).

[Skyman]

[quote="devlin1"]All right.



Elven fighter/magic-user/thief-[i]acrobat[/i]. 7/8/8. Bow specialist.[/quote]
I don't have the PHB in front of me but you actually got those levels with a 9th level fighters exp total divided across the classes?

[devlin1]

[quote="Skyman"]I don't have the PHB in front of me but you actually got those levels with a 9th level fighters exp total divided across the classes?[/quote]
Yes. And I have the benefit of having the PHB in front of me. I figured I'd take the time to look up the numbers before coming up with a random class/level combination.

[Skyman]

that's groovy...had the impression(decade old) that the lvl drop off was more. Keep rockin' the Chargen Casbah:)

[SpaceMonkey]

[quote="devlin1"]All right.



Elven fighter/magic-user/thief-[i]acrobat[/i]. 7/8/8. Bow specialist.



(Hey, it could be worse -- I could cheese it up with a [i]dart[/i] specialist.)



He's the son of the elven fighter/magic-user freed by the previous party from the hill giants' demesne (look it up!). Now that that party's children/nephews/nieces/whatever have gathered to face a renewed threat from the giants, [my character] joins them out of a sense of obligation on behalf of his forebear (who... I dunno... was hit by a bus).[/quote]

I would suggest that the elven man freed from the dungeon beneath the Steading offered service for 1 year to the party for his freedom (as the module actually suggests). While with them, he fell in love with one of the party (priestess perhaps?) and thus your character was begat. Actually being blood-related to one of the original adventurers taking out the giants is somewhat necessary.

[devlin1]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]I would suggest that the elven man freed from the dungeon beneath the Steading offered service for 1 year to the party for his freedom (as the module actually suggests). While with them, he fell in love with one of the party (priestess perhaps?) and thus your character was begat. Actually being blood-related to one of the original adventurers taking out the giants is somewhat necessary.[/quote]
That's bullshit. Yeah, you suck.



I mean -- Sure, that's cool. As long as the priestess is an elf, because my guy is 100% elf, brother.



BTW, I downloaded about 4.5 gigs of 1st and 2nd ed. AD&D books over the weekend, including Chainmail, Greyhawk, Blackmoor, and Eldritch Wizardry. So just old-school stuff in general.

[SpaceMonkey]

[quote="devlin1"]That's bullshit. Yeah, you suck.



I mean -- Sure, that's cool. As long as the priestess is an elf, because my guy is 100% elf, brother.[/quote]

That's fine, your character can [i]think[/i] he's all elf all he wants. ;) Course the best way to make sure would be to choose his mother as the original group member to flesh out a little - lay down the facts the way you want em so to speak.


[quote]
BTW, I downloaded about 4.5 gigs of 1st and 2nd ed. AD&D books over the weekend, including Chainmail, Greyhawk, Blackmoor, and Eldritch Wizardry. So just old-school stuff in general.[/quote]

I'm totally telling the.. um.... RPGAA? about that! How could you? You're taking food right out of the mouths of some prop carpenter's childrens' mouths right now! ..I mean writer's childrens' mouths...

[devlin1]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]That's fine, your character can [i]think[/i] he's all elf all he wants. ;) Course the best way to make sure would be to choose his mother as the original group member to flesh out a little - lay down the facts the way you want em so to speak.[/quote]
Yeah, I'll go with that. I was trying to come up with a way to be connected to the group without being actually descended from one of them -- just to be different -- but if I [i]need[/i] to be descended from one of them, then that's cool too.


[quote="dnd3eplayer"]I'm totally telling the.. um.... RPGAA? about that! How could you? You're taking food right out of the mouths of some prop carpenter's childrens' mouths right now! ..I mean writer's childrens' mouths...[/quote]
Actually, I think the only entity possibly losing money here is eBay.

[devlin1]

I realized last night that if my dude is both the son of one of these adventurers, there's no way he could reasonably be an elf, because aren't elves still in, like, dance class or something at age 35? So how about older brother instead? That rescued elf was only a ftr/m-u 5/8, so it stands to reason my ftr/m-u/t-a 7/8/8 guy could be older.

And I'll go further on the year-of-servitude bit: he stayed with that party of adventurers as a valued member until he was... I dunno... hit by a bus. And maybe he knocked greaves with one of them and produced another adventurer/PC/etc. Maybe the knockee was human, so... half-elf. And maybe he and my guy were from some predominantly elven place like Celene, where that sort of thing is frowned upon, so he essentially voluntarily exiled himself by rutting with that filthy man-animal, and we all disowned him and so forth, but still, out of a sense of familial obligation... my guy gets involved in whatever this is.

[Cthulhu]

I actually rolled an 18! It went sharply downhill from there, but still. I'm thinking gnome thief/illusionist (5/10th level if I'm doing this right). He's the son of a much more accomplished illusionist from the original party of adventurers. He tried to follow in his father's footsteps, but his impressive mental power is severely hindered by a complete lack of focus.

[devlin1]

[quote="Cthulhu"]I actually rolled an 18! It went sharply downhill from there, but still. I'm thinking gnome thief/illusionist (5/10th level if I'm doing this right). [/quote]
Yeah, that's correct -- magic-users and illusionists have an easier time of it in the mid-to-later levels. While a fighter's 2nd-level XP couldn't get a m-u to 2nd, the amount of XP needed for fighter 9 will get a m-u to 10th.



But barbarian beats them all: 6,000 XP to get to 2nd!


[quote]He's the son of a much more accomplished illusionist from the original party of adventurers. He tried to follow in his father's footsteps, but his impressive mental power is severely hindered by a complete lack of focus.[/quote]
[i][Read: 18 Int, 7 Wis.][/i]



On a related note, in our last D&D session, my character's Wis was reduced to 1. I had him act like a frat boy on Spring Break.

[jimmy corrigan]

just checking, but is it not possible to create a druid ranger? if i'm reading this right, then druids have to be true neutral and rangers have to be good.

if it's true, no biggie. i'll just make a druid fighter. (but man, how sweet would a druid ranger be!)

[devlin1]

[quote="jimmy corrigan"]just checking, but is it not possible to create a druid ranger? if i'm reading this right, then druids have to be true neutral and rangers have to be good.



if it's true, no biggie. i'll just make a druid fighter. (but man, how sweet would a druid ranger be!)[/quote]
Yeah, there are very specific limitations on multi-classing. Only elves and half-elves can be fighter/magic-users, f'rinstance. Only gnomes can be thief/illusionists. The only multiclass option for rangers, as I recall, is ranger/cleric. And humans can't multi-class at all.



I have a feeling we'll be a party of demihumans.

[SpaceMonkey]

Humans can dual-class though, and that's the only way to get some combos, IIRC. The Druid/Ranger is still out because of alignment restrictions though.

[devlin1]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Humans can dual-class though, and that's the only way to get some combos, IIRC. [/quote]
True -- given the amount of XP we have to work with, a decent dual-classed human character is viable.



Okay, so if we aren't a totally demihuman party, I predict we'll at least be a totally non-single-classed party. Unless someone's a barbarian, which someone should [i]totally[/i] be. And need I remind anyone of the potential to be found in a bow-specialized ranger? Three ranged attacks a round that do [i]2d6+13[/i] against "giant class" creatures (everything from orcs and goblins to actual giants)? Not that I'm min-maxing -- I'm not even making that guy.

[SpaceMonkey]

Hm.. so you're suggesting I reduce the amount of starting XP you have to work with? I guess I could do that

[devlin1]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Hm.. so you're suggesting I reduce the amount of starting XP you have to work with? I guess I could do that :evil:[/quote]
Heh. Hardly! We're going [i]against the giants[/i]. We can use all the XP we can get. Have you [i]read [/i]Gygax's take on what kind of party is appropriate for these things? It's like [i]nine PCs strong[/i], and averages around 9th-10th level. That's crazy. Four dudes with 9th-level fighter XP is surely woefully underpowered, but we'll do our best.

[SpaceMonkey]

[quote="devlin1"]Heh. Hardly! We're going [i]against the giants[/i]. We can use all the XP we can get. Have you [i]read [/i]Gygax's take on what kind of party is appropriate for these things? It's like [i]nine PCs strong[/i], and averages around 9th-10th level. That's crazy. Four dudes with 9th-level fighter XP is surely woefully underpowered, but we'll do our best.[/quote]

Actually, you're going [i]Against Whatever I put you Against[/i] - don't automatically assume it'll be all giants (or any) just because of the locale. A lot can change in a few decades.

[jimmy corrigan]

the fuck? i thought we're fighting four bears.

[devlin1]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Actually, you're going [i]Against Whatever I put you Against[/i] - don't automatically assume it'll be all giants (or any) just because of the locale. A lot can change in a few decades.[/quote]
Hey, not that this is related to character creation, but do you have/have you seen the 1999 "Against the Giants/Liberation of Geoff" book? It sets up a pretty interesting backstory for the whole "giants" thing.



And I'm sure whatever it is we're going to be "against," it'll be equally as tough as, if not tougher than, the original.

[SpaceMonkey]

[quote="jimmy corrigan"]the [i]fuck?[/i] i thought we're fighting four bears.[/quote]

Did I say you weren't?


[quote="devlin1"]Hey, not that this is related to character creation, but do you have/have you seen the 1999 "Against the Giants/Liberation of Geoff" book? It sets up a pretty interesting backstory for the whole "giants" thing.[/quote]

Liberation of Geoff is in my 'campaign research (& reminders)' pile already ;)


[quote]
And I'm sure whatever it is we're going to be "against," it'll be equally as tough as, if not tougher than, the original.[/quote]

Yeah, you guys are pretty fucked. You should probably give up now. Course you won't, cause of the whole 'heroes' thing, but that's the way it is. Plus there's loot to be had. :lol:

[jimmy corrigan]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Did I say you weren't?[/quote]
[i]phew![/i] load off my mind.

[Cthulhu]

Is barbarian in Arcana Unearthed? I'd do that, but I've only got the PHB.

[devlin1]

[quote="Cthulhu"]Is barbarian in Arcana Unearthed? I'd do that, but I've only got the PHB.[/quote]
Yeah -- although back in the day, we used to call it Unearthed Arcana. But if the dice weren't kind to you, it isn't too likely you could be a barbarian, as their stat minimums are a little demanding -- two 15s and a 14 (and Wisdom no higher than 16).



I have a PDF copy of Unearthed Arcana that I could "loan" you for a nonspecific period of time. It's totally worth looking at even if you don't want to be a cavalier, barbarian, or thief-acrobat, because it has new spells and magic items.

[Cthulhu]

No, I could just barely manage that. I've got three decent stats. I'd love to borrow your book though, even if I go with the gnome, I could use some more spells.

[jimmy corrigan]

[quote="dnd3eplayer"]Actually, you're going [i]Against Whatever I put you Against[/i]...[/quote]
we're going against w.i.p.y.a. (pronounced "whip ya")?!



we're screwed.

[mordraine]

I could be a barbarian as well. Or a paladin or a ranger. My best set of stats: 17,16,15,13,11,10

My other two sets of stats were pretty sucktastic: 12,13,12,13,12,17 (that was the order I rolled 'em in... that 17 broke a funny pattern), and 10,12,11,8,12,10.

Well... onward with the min/maxing!

[jimmy corrigan]

sumac, harbinger of the wild
11th level druid
true neutral half-elf
hit points: 56

str 12
int 10
wis 12
dex 10
con 11
cha 15
(yes. this was my "best" of three rolls.)

background, physical description, and equipment to come.

[Skyman]

Assuming I'm still in on this

My rolls
11, 9, 15, 18, 12, 14
14, 18, 10, 15, 15, 9
15, 12, 12, 12, 13, 14


Itywen Vey-vie, the charred wizard of the Burning Trees
(Eye-tee-when v-hay V-Eye)
Chaotic Neutral High Elf
10th lvl MU

STR 14
INT 18
WIS 10
DEX 16 (+1)
CON 14 (-1)
CHR 9

I was trying to get a cleric but this will do

Background: Itywen was friends with Cerwin the Blue wizard and was suppose to join his party to penetrate the fortress of the Hill Giants. The fear of danger over came him the night before leaving and he shamefully bowed out. Excuse being that Cerwin was a greater wizard than himself and that he, Itywen, would only hold the group back. When news that Cerwin died in some icy caves while his party persevered on to victory sent Itywen into a deep depression of guit and shame. Itywen committed suicide several times by burning himself up in the forests but a cleric kept having pity on him.

Now an old threat is renewed and a second chance for redemption comes blowing into the town. Itywen looks into the mirror and the fear returns. The coward looks back at him and he bites his lip. Smashing the mirror he grabs his satchel of components and joins the group of people waiting for him. 'This time it will be different' he mutters

[mordraine]

Question for our esteemed DM - are we concerned with level restrictions by race?

[Skyman]

[quote="mordraine"]Question for our esteemed DM - are we concerned with level restrictions by race?[/quote]

My guess is yes. Only because we're going with the class restrictions. My guy is straight up 1e AD&D...mostly because I ain't got 2e books. Goodness knows I would love to use a Volley spell

[SpaceMonkey]

[quote="Skyman"]Assuming I'm still in on this
[/quote]

Hm.. hadn't heard from you for a while on this. The player roster is still being sorted, but since this has sorta morphed into a 'next game in our current group' kinda thing instead of a fresh game from the ground up I'm gonna have to get back to you when I know how many slots (if any) are still available. Cool concept though.





For everyone - I may end up needing to be a stickler on the whole 'related to one of the original adventurers' thing. I have some ideas I'd like to implement, and while I can do it without I don't want to as it wouldn't be as cool I'm thinking.


[quote="mordraine"]Question for our esteemed DM - are we concerned with level restrictions by race?[/quote]

'Fraid so, but I believe some of those were upped at least in Arcana Unearthed..

[Skyman]

Yeah I understand...got sick and then did my SoTC character. So whatever happens is groovy with me:machinegu

[devlin1]

[quote="mordraine"]Question for our esteemed DM - are we concerned with level restrictions by race?[/quote]
I totally hope so. I want a hardcore 1e game. Give me weapon speed and "to hit" modifiers vs. armor types. I don't want this shit to make any sense at all. Seriously! Nostalgia is the order of the day for me.


[quote="Skyman"]11th lvl MU/ 10th lvl Thief[/quote]
I don't think you can do this with 250,000 XP. In fact, you definitely can't -- m-u 11 alone is 375,000. Even counting the 10% XP bonus from a high Int and Dex (which I haven't been counting -- Sam, should I/we?), that's only another 25,000 split between both classes.


[quote="dnd3eplayer"]For everyone - I may end up needing to be a stickler on the whole 'related to one of the original adventurers' thing. I have some ideas I'd like to implement, and while I can do it without I don't want to as it wouldn't be as cool I'm thinking.[/quote]
I assume siblings counts for your purposes. Right?