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 Post subject: Need Playtesters
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:25 pm 
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Hey Guys,

I have the initial aspects of a miniatures game I have been working on. It is drawn from many different games I have played. It is still the rough draft, but I wanted to start playtesting it to see if it is viable as a game.

Firefight: Close Quarters Battle
Example Army

Would anybody be interested in playtesting this game with me?



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:49 am 
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Yep. Just tell me when and where would be good for you.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:41 am 
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mrlost wrote:
Yep. Just tell me when and where would be good for you.


Cool.. I will keep you updated.. noticed last night that I had missed some rules in editing and have to insert them in. Mainly it is the electronic warfare rules and scenario generation rules.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:46 pm 
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I see D10s. I like it already.

[after quick read-through] Like any skirmish game with more than three attributes per model, I could see this bogging down really quickly. Add in the usual weakness of any universal system of being, well, universal and thus comprehensive and thus big and that could make it moreso.

Still, rules bogging is primarily a factor of ease of memorization and lookup time. A standard letter sheet should be able to hold a roster of 10-20 in formatted statline style, and pertinent special/narrow rules -to that unit alone- could be specified on the back in clipped language. Given most people assemble forces beforehand, that shouldn't be too big a deal... and I'm thinking of possible game aids that could be used in other systems too.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:59 pm 
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Scolopendra wrote:
I see D10s. I like it already.


It is also designed to resolve every action with a single roll. No rolling to hit then rolling to wound. There is a lot more detail on the individual figures. So you use few figures because they tend to last longer on the table.

My goal is to create a game where a very large game is no more than 30 miniatures. At this point I am still debating on what kind of vehilces to have in the game, if any.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:13 pm 
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Agreed, roll to hit/wound is silly. I much prefer the abstraction used in Starship Troopers.

As it seems you're already aiming for 'realism' via lots of specific modifiers, you may as well throw in vehicles. Vehicles aren't people, though, and so their damage system should probably be quite different. Also, except for extreme circumstances (such as a well-placed ambush) vehicles should almost certainly be a balance breaker--even Third World countries expend a good deal of effort on technicals because a force with technicals has all sorts of advantages over a force with just Mark One Block One Mod Zero feet.

Because of those specific modifiers, though, there should be a good deal of emphasis on pre-game preparation to minimize lookup and whatnot. A lot of the modifiers are unit-specific and aren't likely to change, such as 'encumbrance' and whatnot, and an itemized quickref table a la Battletech should do wonders for the incidentals.

As for game aids, what I find myself thinking is a three ring binder with alternating 8.5"x11" and nine-card protectors. Put special rules on cut-out cards, put the cards in the sleeves, and have it so when it's open the roster is on one side and the cards appropriate to the particular rules that apply to that unit on the other. Wouldn't be too hard to electronicize, if that's your thing, but it may be worth a thought if the playtesting shows the basic rules to be sound.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:29 pm 
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Actually, the plan was to fit any necessary tables onto a single page of 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. All troops would be given datacards about the size of a playing card for each type of figure. So, a player would have a single card for all the Standard Troopers in his force, a card for all the Medics in his force, and so on. I imagine a player having my half a dozen different cards.

Damage would be tracked with counters next to the figure. To be honest, the system is pretty deadly. Most figures won't survive more than one or two hits.

I was looking at having vehicles follow pretty much the same rules as the infantry, basically, they would be larger and be able to take more damage. Vehicles will basically be immune to infantry weapons. You will need anti-vehicular weapons of some form (i.e. anti-tank rocket, mortar, etc.).

There are a lot of aspects to the rules set, but it is intended to provide lots of strategies to win the game.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:44 pm 
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Well, assuming the datacards avoid any sort of picture, it makes sense that one could fit really-condensed-rules and a statline on them.

The reason why I figure vehicle damage rules should be different (although yes, for abstraction and playability reasons I generally prefer a same-system-for-all bit), is because one can take a gun and perforate the cab or bed of my truck until the end of time and assuming the steering column isn't shot away I could still get into it and run it. The only thing is I'd save on air conditioning.

A way to avoid a simple 'immunity' rule would perhaps be to give the vehicle an wound threshhold value -table- for each aspect (front, sides, rear, top, bottom) that covers a -range-. The track linkages of tanks are still vulnerable to heavy machine gun fire, the wheel-wells of Strykers are lucky if they can stop 7.62mm, so on and so forth. One row of the table could be a motive system (treads or wheels) which would merely immobilize the vehicle. For most vehicles, the wound threshholds for Flesh Wound, Deep Wound, and Instant Death would be very close together but Flesh Wound would be a very high value (the MBT laughs at the assault rifle). For something like a truck, the Flesh Wound value would be relatively low but the Deep Wound and Instant Death values much higher (the assault rifle stings the truck but isn't likely to destroy it without shooting the right spot and is more likely to kill the people inside).

Now this would make vehicles a two-roll affair (attack roll, hit location), but it'd allow vehicles to be all but invulnerable to infantry weapons unless thinly armored.

Just some thoughts.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:15 am 
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I posted an updated version of the rules. Generally, I just cleaned things up a bit, but there are a few new rules.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Okay, so I want to try this out. I know there are a couple of you who are interested in humoring me. I am going to create to sample armies. I have one up already. If any of you want to play with the rules and see what you can make, that would be cool too.

Basically, I would like to do this in a about two or three weeks on a Saturday.

I still have to get the initial bits together like counters, but overall, it is read to go.

If you are interested let me know. The latest version of the rules are at the top and I have an example army also.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:12 pm 
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I'm interested


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Color me curious...and I'll humor you



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:38 am 
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Would August 12th work for you guys?



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:00 pm 
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I'll reread the rules tomorrow and tinker a bit.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:41 am 
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August 12th where (assuming, of course, that I'm invited)?



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:22 pm 
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Scolopendra wrote:
August 12th where (assuming, of course, that I'm invited)?


I am going to figure that one out. I figure one of the game stores. I still need to make a second fighting force.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:54 pm 
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Why yes, yes it would. Unless I manage to make it down to Desert Con.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:51 pm 
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I cannot make the Aug 12 date. I will be out of town crying because I cannot make it



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:37 pm 
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Count Zero wrote:
I am going to figure that one out. I figure one of the game stores. I still need to make a second fighting force.

Well, my old 40K stuff finally got shipped in. Between them, my Starship Troopers stuff, and perhaps throwing together a Star Trek away team using the same paper mini maker I used for my forum avatar, I could perhaps assemble something. Take the effort off your hands and whatnot.

Plus, working off some previous template reduces the probability of powergaming.



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:17 am 
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I figure we will get together at Game Towne this Sunday. Can I get a count of who will be there. I would like to have two people. That way I can just watch you play and see where you get hung up.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:50 am 
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I suppose I make one... should I be working through the unit creation rules or no?



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:26 am 
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Scolopendra wrote:
I suppose I make one... should I be working through the unit creation rules or no?


Nah.. just the game play rules themselves.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Righto then.

Game Towne, tomorrow 12 AUG (*doublechecks* *triplechecks*)... what time?



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:06 pm 
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Scolopendra wrote:
Righto then.

Game Towne, tomorrow 12 AUG (*doublechecks* *triplechecks*)... what time?


Let's say about 1 pm. I can only meet for a little while tomorrow. I expect to be done by 3.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:56 pm 
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Righto. I've just gone through my printout of the rules, highlighted some stuff, and scribbled down some notes. Anything else (other than the obvious dice and tape measure) you need me to bring?



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Thanks for helping out with this Tim, I appreciate it. The actual playtest gave me some ideas of the direction the game can go.



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Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

In other words, I remember that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense and deal with it best I can.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:31 pm 
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More than welcome. 'Twas fun--been quite some time since I've scrapped some miniatures.



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