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Skyman
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Post by Skyman » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:05 pm

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Dragonkin
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Post by Dragonkin » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:28 pm

Goddess, I hate unions.

Everything they're "fighting for" is old hat for most employers I've worked for.
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Post by Drew » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:53 am

My union rocks! It allows me to simply do my job without worrying about things like begging for rasies, losing my benifits and I have an advocate should I need one for any job problems. Of course, I work in the public sector where we have a boss who thinks it's a good idea to suddenly pay 200,000 workers Federal Minimum wage. If it wasn't for my union, I would have been one of those.

So as long as we have people like his Honorable Terminator with power over people's lives, we little people will need unions to keep them from removing that old hat you've grown accustomed to.
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Dragonkin
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Post by Dragonkin » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:05 pm

There are only two things that give a union any "power." The first is you, the dues-payer. Let's face it, without you, said union could not even operate, as they wouldn't have the funds to sway law-makers to their point of view in the first place.

Second is fear. Employers fear the pie-in-the-face tactics that unions use. Won't give us what we want? We'll order our members to march outside your place(s) of business and spout propaganda, thus giving your company a PR black-eye. Such a thing should cut into your business.

The problem with most unions (there are a few I can get behind, though not many) is they seem to fail to see the "Big Picture." This is especially true when now, the American economy is weak, the value of the American dollar is sliding, and the average American family is on the verge of foreclosure or bankruptcy. Forcing an employer to meet wage/ benefit demands may be good in the short term, but what if meeting said demands results in the business folding? Look at the American Auto industry, for instance. GM is constantly in dire straits anymore, and a large portion of that is spending huge amounts of their profits in meeting UAW demands. And shite rolls downhill. The place I worked in Maine is likely to close its doors because GM can no longer place the orders with them they used to.

As I said, there are a few unions I can get behind. Collective bargaining can be a useful and effective tool, but more union members need to be sure the leadership is keeping the workers' best interests at the fore.
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Post by Count Zero » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:17 pm

Dragonkin wrote:There are only two things that give a union any "power." The first is you, the dues-payer. Let's face it, without you, said union could not even operate, as they wouldn't have the funds to sway law-makers to their point of view in the first place.

Second is fear. Employers fear the pie-in-the-face tactics that unions use. Won't give us what we want? We'll order our members to march outside your place(s) of business and spout propaganda, thus giving your company a PR black-eye. Such a thing should cut into your business.

The problem with most unions (there are a few I can get behind, though not many) is they seem to fail to see the "Big Picture." This is especially true when now, the American economy is weak, the value of the American dollar is sliding, and the average American family is on the verge of foreclosure or bankruptcy. Forcing an employer to meet wage/ benefit demands may be good in the short term, but what if meeting said demands results in the business folding? Look at the American Auto industry, for instance. GM is constantly in dire straits anymore, and a large portion of that is spending huge amounts of their profits in meeting UAW demands. And shite rolls downhill. The place I worked in Maine is likely to close its doors because GM can no longer place the orders with them they used to.

As I said, there are a few unions I can get behind. Collective bargaining can be a useful and effective tool, but more union members need to be sure the leadership is keeping the workers' best interests at the fore.


Yeah... Unions are so evil... they only gave us the modern aspects of employment that we come to see as expected... ya know like paid breaks, an 8 hour work day, and reasonable pay for work. All of those came about because of worker's unions. The reason workers get crapped on by employers so much now is because they aren't in unions.

Sure there are Unions that were corrupt, but those days are long gone. A union is only as effective as its membership. A successful union requires involved membership. Corruption comes when you stop paying attention. And, Unions don't have to collect dues to be effective, the worker's just have to be organized.

But ya know... screw those fuckbag maids... like the deserve to be able to pay their bills and care for a family on 40 hours of honest work a week. I mean for fuck's sake... get a real job already.
Whenever I get confused about D&D alignment morality, I just imagine Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Ghandi arm wrestling shirtless on the back of a killer whale.

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Dragonkin
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Post by Dragonkin » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:22 pm

Ya know, I do feel badly for those maids, but the union's tricks aren't going to help them. Unfortunately, Disney (not just Land, but all it's resorts/ animation studios, etc.) is run in the manner that will maximize profits, even at the expense of it's employees. Far too many employers out there are like this, and I have yet to see an effective union action against said employers.

It's unfortunate that in a couple of months, people will have forgotten about this completely. All Disney has to do is wait this out. In the interim, many of those maids will either quit and seek employment elsewhere in the hopes of finding decent pay and bennies, or they'll stick it out in the hope that their union can manage to pull off a miracle.

And, as I've said before, unions had their place. I just don't think they do anymore.
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