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So... Dark Sun?
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:15 am
by ekomega
The board seems dead, and I haven't even logged in for 4 months, so I thought I'd kick a conversation off.
What do you think of 4E Dark Sun?
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:49 am
by cczernia
I haven't been this excited about a setting in a long time. I was never into the second edition version of the game but I'm current loving the new campaign guide.
I really like the defiling rules. I'm interested in the rules to survive in the desert but don't like the idea that it can kill you. The idea that everyone dies from dehydration doesn't make a good story. I more interested in becoming dehydrated and getting enslaved as a result (or something like that).
I also think it would be fun to be part of the fall of Tyr instead of starting off with it already done. They had a list of the rebels who helped bring Tyr down which screamed adventuring party so I can only imagine it was a campaign that someone ran and it made it into the book. I want to run that campaign.
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:53 am
by ekomega
I didn't want to give my opinion until someone else did.
I really like the setting that they've presented, and that they've made such an effort to preserve the core of Dark Sun, especially the no divine rule. I also like how they've done their best to incorporate the new races in a way that makes sense.
Also, with the new roles in 4E, you can actually play a DS game without a cleric for the first time ever. This is excellent.
I like that a 1st level monster has an encounter power that can drop a PC in one shot. That's very Dark Sun.
I don't like how every PC they've made is a Preserver, and how easy it is not to defile. The point of arcane magic is that it involves defiling. It used to be really hard to be a preserver, and that was the point. Now every goon wizard PC is a member of a secret preserving order. BS. Just play a templar.
I wish that the Campaign Guide had more information about the world. They describe all the city states of Tyr, but provide little background information about the history of the world or about The Dragon.
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:19 pm
by devlin1
Yeah... I wish Preserving required a little more effort. I was hoping that all arcane powers would Defile by default, and choosing to Preserve instead would require, say, a minor action. Something like an At-Will power that says "Until the end of the round, your arcane powers do not Defile" -- that kind of thing. That only Dailies Defile is... kinda lame, IMO, and not nearly frightening enough.
You're telling me Athas got to be the way it is just because some wizards couldn't do without their Daily powers every day? Bah.
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:39 pm
by cczernia
[quote="devlin1"]Yeah... I wish Preserving required a little more effort. I was hoping that all arcane powers would Defile by default, and choosing to Preserve instead would require, say, a minor action. Something like an At-Will power that says "Until the end of the round, your arcane powers do not Defile" -- that kind of thing. That only Dailies Defile is... kinda lame, IMO, and not nearly frightening enough.
You're telling me Athas got to be the way it is just because some wizards couldn't do without their Daily powers every day? Bah.[/quote]
Keeping defiling on as default would be interesting but I like that the player has to make a choice to gain a benefit at the expense of everyone else.
[quote]I don't like how every PC they've made is a Preserver, and how easy it is not to defile. The point of arcane magic is that it involves defiling. It used to be really hard to be a preserver, and that was the point. Now every goon wizard PC is a member of a secret preserving order. BS. Just play a templar.[/quote]
I played in a two shot game of 2nd ed Dark Sun not that long ago and played a defiler. The only mechanical difference I remember was XP progression and I thought it was a ripp-off. How does that make it more difficult to be a Preserver? My thought was why would anyone bother player a defiler other than for thematic reason.
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:58 pm
by Cthulhu
It looks like they've changed the reasons for defiling in 4e. Now defiling's tempting not because it's easier, but because it offers greater power for someone willing to sacrifice the world and people around them. Arcane PC's who focus on defiling eventually get to use it on encounter powers, and there are other advantages that come up in higher levels.
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:51 am
by Drumheller
Not being familiar with the 2nd Ed version of the setting, it's all new to me and I like it.
Things I like:
Character Themes
Alternate Rewards system
Chapter 6 in general
The nice and shiny map of Athas
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:54 am
by ekomega
[quote="Drumheller"]Not being familiar with the 2nd Ed version of the setting, it's all new to me and I like it.
Things I like:
Character Themes
Alternate Rewards system
Chapter 6 in general
The nice and shiny map of Athas[/quote]
I forgot about Themes. I really like those. Although, did PCs need [i]another[/i] encounter power? I hear they're rolling them out for all characters, not just DS, in a new book sometime in the next few months.
As to 2E defiling, it provided little mechanical benefit. But the point was every arcane user was a defiler. You had to be super exceptional to not be. You didn't get a benefit because it was the default. Otherwise, how did Athas turn into such a shithole?
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:49 pm
by cczernia
[quote="ekomega"]Otherwise, how did Athas turn into such a shithole?[/quote]
The temptation of power. You could cast a spell no problem but you can cast great magic by sucking the power from the surrounding life.
That is what I like about 4e defiling. Players have to make a choice when they fail that daily and if you have ever failed a daily power than you know it is a tempting choice.