Immersion

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cczernia
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Immersion

Post by cczernia »

I was thinking about immersion in rpgs and for some players it is important. In case you're not sure what I mean I'm talking about when you and your character almost become one. You feel and think what your character feels and thinks.

I find it to be a rewarding experience but a rare one so I was wondering what were some ideas people had for creating an immersive experience in play.

I know for me PC to PC roleplaying and conflict helps a ton but I can't really make it come about. I would say 1 in 3 campaigns do I feel any immersive roleplay.
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Post by mordraine »

I'm not particularly interested in immersion. I mean, we're all sitting around a table rolling dice. For me there's no way it can become immersive. I'm more interested in the story that's told and the challenge of the PC's. Immersion is pretty low on my radar, if it shows up at all.

When's the last time you felt immersed? Maybe our definitions are different.
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cczernia
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Post by cczernia »


[quote="mordraine"]
When's the last time you felt immersed? Maybe our definitions are different.[/quote]


It is hard to define but I'm a lot more invested and interested in a character at certain times over others. When I'm immersed into a character I more likely to remember details of other characters and the setting. I can easily get into character and consistently act them out.



On the flip side when I'm not immersed I could swap one character out for another and not really care or keep forgetting my characters name.

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Post by devlin1 »


[quote="cczernia"]When I'm immersed into a character I more likely to remember details of other characters and the setting.



On the flip side when I'm not immersed I could swap one character out for another and not really care or keep forgetting my characters name.[/quote]


Ah. In that case, I'm not sure I've ever seen you immersed in a character.

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Post by Skyman »

:peep:didn't Tom Hanks do a movie about this?
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Post by jimmy corrigan »


[quote="cczernia"]I was thinking about immersion in rpgs and for some players it is important. In case you're not sure what I mean I'm talking about when you and your character almost become one. You feel and think what your character feels and thinks.



I find it to be a rewarding experience but a rare one so I was wondering what were some ideas people had for creating an immersive experience in play.



I know for me PC to PC roleplaying and conflict helps a ton but I can't really make it come about. I would say 1 in 3 campaigns do I feel any immersive roleplay.[/quote]
i've always enjoyed immersive roleplay more than the alternative. but like yourself, i find the experience too few and far between. i don't have any clever tools or tricks to make this happen, but have noticed trends for when this sort of roleplay magically occurs. i find that it usually happens in the first few sessions of a campaign. also, the fewer the amount of players increases the odds of an immersive experience-- i suppose there's less chance of side conversations if everyone's in a scene. if rules take a back seat, that usually helps. and if everyone is focused, on the same page, energized and engaged. when those sundry stars align i find there's a greater chance of immersive roleplay.

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Post by mordraine »


[quote="cczernia"]It is hard to define but I'm a lot more invested and interested in a character at certain times over others. When I'm immersed into a character I more likely to remember details of other characters and the setting. I can easily get into character and consistently act them out.[/quote]

Ah... for some reason I envisioned immersion as something deeper than that. In your first post you mentioned feeling and thinking what your character thinks and feels. I don't think I've ever gotten that far into a character. But I will say that some characters are easier to get into than others.



Here's an interesting thing for me - I find it easier to immerse myself in NPC's as a GM than as a player with PC's.

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Post by Sadohara »

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm using "immersion" as "getting into character; considering how the character thinks and behaves."

For me, roleplaying without some level of immersion descends to the level of boardgaming. I like board gaming, but I don't spend a few hours a week wondering how Blue Wooden Piece felt about getting screwed over in that commodity trade with Green Wooden Piece and then quietly plotting delicious revenge. The difference between board games and roleplaying games is, ultimately (but not exclusively, I give you), character.

Maybe it isn't immersion but at a minimum, the willing suspension of disbelief. Around an rp table, we're all watching/directing a movie in our heads. Everybody's movie is a little bit different, tailored to their own experience. The problems, for me, arise when a player doesn't seem to care for the movie at all. You don't need to be a immersed but you need to be a willing participant.

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Post by Uber_snotling »

I agree that immersion and the ability to act as the character would act are my favorite parts of roleplaying, but that certainly isn't the case for many. An example:

My PC (standard dwarf type) got into an argument with another PC (dragonkind diplomat type) about the form of government that should be instituted among some recently freed slaves. My PC was advocating for a society of representative democracy or oligarchy through guild representation while the other PC was arguing for a enlightened despotic government.

It was great. For five minutes, we argued the benefits and disadvantages of government systems from the perspective of our PCs. Then another player went off on us for not getting on with the game. I was stunned that someone was not enjoying the "roleplay" part of the game, especially since we had just spent 2 hours dice rolling in a hack/slash boss fight. But that player had no interest in this side-conversation. We eventually kicked him from the group.

Moral of the story: Game with people who have similar expectations to increase your immersion experience.
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Post by jimmy corrigan »


[quote="Uber_snotling"]Moral of the story: Game with people who have similar expectations to increase your immersion experience.[/quote]
expectations are important!!!

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Post by mordraine »

For me, it's always been easier to immerse myself in the character (now that I understand the definition better, I'm more comfortable using the term) if that character has simple motivations (at least at the outset). For instance, in a recent Earthdawn campaign, I played a troll who had a few simple motivations, all revolving around drinking - drinking solves everything, drinking with someone creates a bond with that person, and friendship bonds created from drinking with someone are very important. Within those motivational bounds, it was really easy to roleplay him.

I think that's why I can easily immerse myself in NPC's while GMing. They usually only have one or two motivations. Makes it easy.
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Post by cczernia »

Just to make it clear for me immersion is more than just roleplaying a character nor do I think it is thinking and feeling what a character thinks.

I think it is more of an emotional tie to that character. You really care and value the character beyond other characters. I know I'm more likely to go out of my way to add more to a character that I'm immersed in.

I also agree a lot with what JC said that if it is going to happen it will happen during the beginning of a campaign and with less players.

In one case I was running a Mage game with two players and the players decided to have a scene where they share info while driving to the next big scene. The driving scene took a lot longer than normal because the two players were just talking about random things in character.

Anyway, as though on queue a podgecast on immersion.
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Post by Skyman »


[quote="cczernia"]


Anyway, as though on queue a [url=http://podgecast.com/archives/tpc-092-in-which-we-dont-talk-about-immersion]podgecast on immersion[/url].[/quote]

Just a warning they don't talk about it till 2/3 in and then it's kinda scattered and ivory tower like, even after they joke about it being elite gamer soap boxing. Not my cup of tea but it may be for you. Just don't drink Mountain Dew



Immersion. Well for me its that thresh hold where I stop playing to win and start playing to play...for the sake of playing, story or whatever. Kinda like I will think this is what my guy would do given this situation. I may presume feelings and thoughts but they are only close estimations. I will care about my guy but mostly for what is true for him or her to be. I think the less immersion I have the more Out of Character decisions will be made for the sake of 'this is how I can max' this situation/game for my guy.



For me it goes both for being a player running a character and a GM presenting NPC's. Some games and groups are immersion lite. Where it is a simple dungeon crawl...for example. Or immersion heavy where the crux of the scenario or adventure is based on immersive values that rely on the players to play out their peeps by their POV or values. Such as I played in Deep Space Nine game that had certain morality pivots that players could easily brute force through if they opt out of the immersive qualities of the game. I think it is easy for a GM to be immersive because of the amount of control that is involved IMHO. While as a player some times its a bit trickier because you could fall totally in love with the character concept but once in play fall out of the involvement with the character because the setting or the chemistry in the group does not gel or solidify the character to the heart of the player...metaphorically speaking. One of the caveats as a GM is when players take what you have conjured into a realm that was not part of the rail road. At this point, as a GM, can I sustain my own immersion with the NPCs and setting now that the players have derailed me. Because EXPECTATION are IMPORTANT....just checking to see if your still awake. lol. So immersion for me is like a date. Some times your into her and some times your just not that into her...

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Post by mordraine »


[quote="cczernia"]Just to make it clear for me immersion is more than just roleplaying a character nor do I think it is thinking and feeling what a character thinks.



I think it is more of an emotional tie to that character. You really care and value the character beyond other characters. I know I'm more likely to go out of my way to add more to a character that I'm immersed in.[/quote]


For me, caring for the character starts with ease of role-play, i.e. how easy it is to get into the character and his motivations. I can't have one without first having the other.



So let me ask you Chris - what makes a character more immersive for you? What allows you to connect to one character but not to another?

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Post by jimmy corrigan »

glitter!!!

carry on.
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Post by cczernia »


[quote="mordraine"]
So let me ask you Chris - what makes a character more immersive for you? What allows you to connect to one character but not to another?[/quote]


I'm not really sure what makes a character more immersive for me which is a reason why I posted the topic. A lot of what JC said I think is true for me including small groups, rules taking a back seat, immersion occurring early on, everyone focused and of course, glitter.



However, I don't think that guarantees an immersive experience.

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Post by Dragonmaster Zoc »

To me, there are two levels of Immersion (or three, if you count non-immersion as a level).

Non-immersion is playing it as a board game. Build a character with the biggest bonuses that apply in the most situations so you can win the game by killing all of the bad guys.

Immersion is when you approach gameplay from the character's standpoint. Every decision you make is based on what that character would do in that situation, as though the character was a real person. If the character would make a bad decision or turn against the party, then that's regrettable, but to make a decision based on information the character doesn't have is to destroy the suspension of disbelief. That's the basic level of what I think a roleplaying game should be.

Deep immersion is when you get feedback, and the character starts affecting the player. You become smarter while playing a genius character because you are able to approach things from a more methodical point of view, or you can't eat the pepperoni pizza because your elf is a vegetarian and the thought of eating meat disgusts him. That's going a bit too far, to me.
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